>>Narrator: How do I know which path is best for me?

Is it possible to take on these challenges and obstacles?

Where do I even start?

What should I do with my life?

Sometimes, the only way to find out is to go see what's possible Since 2001, we've been sharing the stories of people who ventured out and explored different career paths and different possibilities for their futures.

This is one of those stories.

This is Roadtrip Nation.

[MUSIC] >> Julie: We're halfway through the trip, which is crazy.

[LAUGH] I feel everything has flown by.

>> Demaceo: I feel there's fuel in the tank for me, talking to the leaders from different backgrounds who are in tech and doing public service essentially.

Each conversation is deeply inspiring, insightful, and motivating.

>> Anthoni: So far, the experience has been amazing.

Every interview has been very insightful, very eye opening.

Demaceo and Julie, we're kinda are the same brain cells sometimes.

>> Julie: So you split?

>> Demaceo: Split.

>> Julie: And then you bring it back.

>> Demaceo: Bring back now, y'all.

>> Julie: Both arms in the front.

Yep, front, back [LAUGH] >> Demaceo: [LAUGH] >> Julie: It's been quite a bonding experience when we're jamming out.

And that's when all the inside jokes and different personalities come out.

>> Anthoni: We're driving to Washington DC, then, Cincinnati, Ohio, Indianapolis, and last stop is Louisville, Kentucky, and we're very excited for what's to come from the next week and a half.

[MUSIC] >> Anthoni: We're going towards Washington DC, this is the farthest I've been away from home.

There's still a lot for me to go out there and kind of experience.

I've always wanted to use technology as an intervention to uplift people.

As a first gen college student, I don't really have somebody to kind of give me advice.

This opportunity will help me find what kind of career I want.

>> Julie: I'm in tech policy, which is the intersection of technology and policy.

But I feel like I'm in a pivot point.

I feel I can go multiple ways.

When I told my parents I was leaving Microsoft to work in Congress, they were like, what's wrong with you?

I think they actually want me to go back into tech.

As I think about next steps, thinking through the balance of impactful work and take into account finances, because there's sometimes a pay cut.

So it's how to think through that.

>> Demaceo: My goal as far as my career goes would be to tie in what I was doing previous to software engineering, which was marine biology and environmental conservation work.

I want to get back to being foundationally centered in a community.

[MUSIC] >> Julie: We're in Washington DC, a few blocks from my apartment, it's kinda weired.

[LAUGH] We're about to interview Chris Kuang, who cofounded and is the Deputy Director of US Digital Corps.

>> Demaceo: The US Digital Corps brings in a bunch of people from different types of backgrounds who are curious about public service, essentially, and it is this two-year fellowship to get into government.

I think that's a great opportunity.

>> Chris: Growing up, I was always really interested in technology, what the new gadgets were, but always really passionate about public service.

And I was that kid that was organizing voter registration drives in high school.

I think for a long time, I felt that those two things were always mutually exclusive, that one day I'd have to pick.

Hey, am I gonna go down that tech route, or am I gonna go do public service work?

But stumbled upon a class in college that was called tech and innovation in government, and I'm like, well, shoot, those are the two things that I am really excited about.

And it was the first time I saw them kind of in one sentence, that was kind of the light bulb moment.

>> Julie: Can you tell us a little bit more about the US Digital Corps?

>> Chris: Yeah, so, it was designed as a two-year fellowship program.

So we hire recent graduates in five broad technology tracks, software engineering, data science and analytics, product management, design, and cybersecurity.

And so, we look for people who are coming out of school, or retraining, or kind of pivoting in their careers, they actually get staffed on projects all across the federal government.

Say you're a data scientist coming in, you might actually spend your two years supporting the Department of Agriculture, supporting the State Department.

In addition, it is not only that job, that opportunity, but it's really important for us that we create a community of people who are doing this together.

And so, instead of feeling like, hey, I'm the only person, I'm on an island trying to do this work, you've got a built in community.

At the end of our two years, fellows actually graduate from the Digital Corps, and they are able to stay on in a permanent position in government.

We actually just graduated our first cohort, and we over 95% of the people decide to stay in public service.

>> Julie: Wow.

>> Chris: So, I think that just shows us we need more opportunities like this.

>> Demaceo: That's so cool.

>> Chris: Yeah.

>> Demaceo: [LAUGH] >> Chris: I feel so thrilled.

What I like to tell people is whatever issue you care about, whether it's public health, social safety net, the environment, national security, the government does it all.

>> Demaceo: You mentioned some of the fellows have done cool things.

>> Chris: Yeah.

>> Demaceo: What are some of those cool things?

>> Chris: My goodness, one, we had a team of fellows working within the Department of Health and Human Services.

We rolled out the 988 helpline.

So in the same way that you would call 911 if you need an emergency services, we rolled out kind of Crisis Text Line and call center, mainly for people who are going through kind of mental health emergencies.

And so, in a supporting the technical infrastructure there, and that is a powerful responsibility, but the impact is tremendous.

>> Julie: As someone who went from big tech to government, there's a huge paid cut.

And I was kind of willing to take that, but I think it's not feasible for a lot of people.

>> Chris: Yeah.

>> Julie: So when you think about incentivizing people to join the government, especially from the tech background- >> Chris: Yeah.

>> Julie: How do you think about that?

>> Chris: I think that's a really real question, right?

And people gotta pay their bills, they have families to support, and that is critical.

And so, we're actually very transparent about how much we pay people.

Just to put some concrete numbers on it, here in 2024, the class of fellows that just started, their starting salary was over $91,000.

And by the end of the program, they're over $100,000.

So it is obviously probably not big tech money.

But what's priceless is the impact and the mission and feeling you go home every day thinking, hey, I did something that made the world a better place.

There's a sense of public service that I think everyone here, everyone in this building carries with them.

And it's really important to us that, at the end of the day, it is not just the people who can afford to take a massive pay cut who choose public service.

We have plenty of folks from different socioeconomic backgrounds, different places in life.

That is a battle I'll continue to push.

>> Demaceo: I'm sold.

>> [LAUGH] >> Chris: Let's sign you up, Perfect [LAUGH] >> Chris: All right, you're not leaving on the RV.

We'll keep you here and put you to work.

>> Demaceo: Us three, as well as anyone else who's interested in pursuing this field, do you have any tips of advice or things of that nature?

>> Chris: I think, just find your people.

I felt like I was the only person that had these interests in technology, but also social impact or public service, and that is a really isolating place to be.

And finding your peers, finding other people who are similarly minded is really powerful.

And we're all on the same team.

We're all trying to make the world a better place, and government is just people who show up, right?

It's people who show up and care about their community and want to do the work.

>> Demaceo: I've been saying I wanted to still be in tech while also having whatever work that I'm doing be community centered, and what Chris is doing is just that.

With my background in environmentalism, it seems like it was an avenue for me to pursue it.

It's cool, it's sweet to know that that's a possibility.

>> Chris: Keep riding the wave, it's always something new, new opportunity out there.

[MUSIC] >> Anthoni: Today, we're in Cincinnati with Clean Earth Rovers.

>> Rob: We are building self-driving, autonomous robots to monitor water and clean water, oil spill, fish kill, dangerous, dirty work.

You don't want to be out there in an oil spill, because if it catches on fire, what happens to you in the oil?

That's where the rover comes in.

At that point, then you've saved three or four people from having to be out there in a row boat and big Tyvek suits with masks, trying to figure out how to treat the water.

So all you need to do is hit the controller.

There it is.

>> Julie: She's alive.

>> Rob: You'll see it's like a funnel.

We'll pull a 20-foot net on the back and again, so you can imagine the difference between I have a hand net as compared to just flying through.

Today, you're only getting water quality once a week, and someone has to go in there and dip the water and get the sample.

In the future, you're gonna get water quality every 15 minutes and if we see something, with fish kill, it's oxygen levels.

We can see the oxygen levels start to crash, that means there's not enough oxygen for the fish, right?

So part of that is we're trying to push people to get ahead of the problems.

This was the one that caught the electrical current, right?

>> Rob: So we're getting weird readings out of one of the data pods, we didn't know why, we start calling, making phone calls, and we found out there was an electrical wire in the water.

>> Demaceo: Seeing Rob utilize tech for environmental efforts, it was amazing definitely.

It was a very great example for me wanting to continue going down that path and seeing what is currently being done.

>> Anthoni: After Cincinnati, we drove to Indianapolis.

So when we got to this RV park, I just decided to start my first campfire.

How?

>> Demaceo: How, what do how?

>> Anthoni: There's a lot of value in getting out my comfort zone, kind of seeing that there's a lot more out there.

This is nice, this is fun.

>> [LAUGH] >> Demaceo: This is nice and fun.

>> Anthoni: When I was a kid, I would dream of doing things and then as I got older, I don't know why that drive wasn't really there.

I guess I got too comfortable with my life or staying in my own little personal bubble because of my fears, the fear of rejection, like how should I tackle that?

There's still a lot of questions >> Crew: Anthoni said this is his first campfire.

>> Anthoni: Yeah.

>> Julie: How's it feel?

>> Anthoni: It feels really hot, I'm gonna take off my sweater.

I've always wanted to help people.

That was always the goal, and this opportunity will now give me the experience to see what's out there but also meet a lot of people that are in the public interest technology field.

And really help me find what kind of career I want, get out of my shell, be more out there and like help me take more risks rather than take the safe option.

So who are we interviewing today?

>> Demaceo: Genevie Jones.

>> Julie: She's the executive director and chief of staff of informatics and information services at the Indiana University Health.

>> Anthoni: Right behind us, right there, over there, ooh!

>> Demaceo: How did you know that this was the right path for you?

>> Genevie: Yeah, so I really want to help people.

I knew that's what I wanted to do, and that's why I got into healthcare.

I did radiation therapy, I was an X ray student.

I found a job at IU Health.

So we were at the time going from our paper charts to our electronic medical record system, and I was so geeked out about it.

Only because I was like, why are we still using paper?

This is so old school.

>> [LAUGH] >> Genevie: So they were like, since you're so excited about this new tech, you get to go to Vegas and learn about it and then you have to come and train people.

And I was like, uh-oh, that's a mistake.

But I was so geeked and then I met a lot of people that had titles like informatics and clinical informatics, and I said, well, I don't know much about computers.

And he was like, we can teach you that.

He's like, we need your clinical knowledge, your expertise and your clinical knowledge.

Sometimes it's a matter of life or death for treatment on just getting patients' medical history and understanding what can I not give them?

And I was like, well, I can do that too I mean, and so I applied for all the jobs that had the title informatics [LAUGH].

Literally, I was like, I don't even know.

>> Julie: So we're first-gen college grads.

>> Genevie: Yeah.

>> Julie: And I think first-gen corporate world, but for mentorship sponsorship, it's easy for people like, go, like, go find a mentor.

But like, what's advice you have for someone trying to build that?

>> Genevie: Yeah, sometimes you feel like, okay, I don't have those exposures, but how do you get there?

You do your research, you reach out.

You know how many no's I got for informational interviews or no answer at all?

And there were people like that were in the organization that I work for, I was like, dang.

>> Demaceo: [LAUGH].

>> Genevie: [LAUGH] They didn't respond to me at all.

My feelings was hurt, you know?

But to your question about how do you build that, you just have to be able to get out there.

There's no magic to it at all and sometimes you feel like it is.

You're like, how did that happen?

How did those, how did they get that opportunity?

But it's really just putting yourself out there.

>> Anthoni: So from my experience so far throughout this trip and then like from what you're saying, I'm very hesitant because of fear of rejection, kind of like-.

>> Genevie: Yes.

>> Anthoni: Fear.

>> Genevie: Yes.

>> Anthoni: But what you're telling me is kind of like be yourself.

>> Genevie: Be yourself.

>> Anthoni: Kind of like go out there, be curious and somebody will eventually bring you to a step closer to where you want to be.

>> Genevie: Yes, I was most successful when I started being my authentic self.

I was born in West Africa, Liberia.

I lived in Liberia until I was ten and I came to Indiana.

I used to be embarrassed about being Liberian because in high school it was rough.

I practiced hard not to have an accent, you know, because I didn't want for anybody to know.

I just wanted to just blend in and be regular, everything, my hair, how I looked, how dark my skin was.

I used to be so embarrassed.

But to be honest with you, when I started embracing that thing about me that was so unique, the doors just started opening.

People just started treating me differently, acting differently, and I was walking in my own self.

I was walking in my own comfort, in my own power, like nobody is like me, and that's awesome.

To me, that's when things started changing.

You'll see, soon as you start working in your authentic self and start showing up, people will like, they will start to say, like wow.

And the people that are worth it, right?

Because there are going to be people that don't see it and aren't worth it, they don't know your worth and they can't see it, and that's okay too.

But don't give them the power and the energy, the right people will see it, and they will see you.

>> Anthoni: I really needed that honestly.

>> Genevie: Yes.

>> Anthoni: [LAUGH] Thank you.

>> Genevie: I believe it, I believe it, I really do.

>> Anthoni: Thank you.

>> Genevie: There's no secret sauce, the secret sauce is being yourself and having enough confidence in yourself that this journey is gonna work out.

It's not a straight path, you take detours and you learn, and you take another detour, you learn and you bring that to your journey, but it's just walking in your true self.

>> Anthoni: Genevie, she kind of like gave me that confidence to be like, it's going to be okay.

You just have to push yourself through the fear.

The more I'm authentic to myself and to people and tell people my passions, the more people are willing to give me that help to kind of like get further in my career aspirations.

>> Genevie: Be curious, be you, love Genevie.

>> Julie: Yay!

>> Anthoni: Thank you so much.

This whole experience was like a good push for me to be like, yeah, you can do this.

I do feel like I have that confidence and that energy, motivation to be able to do it on my own from now on.

>> Julie: So we're currently in Kentucky, which is our final stop, talking to Theresa, who's the CEO of GoodMaps.

A startup that brings accessible mapping to indoor spaces.

She's worked at a bunch of different industries, but I was just curious how she navigated those transitions.

What are some ways I can maybe pivot and be more calculated about it?

We're in Louisville.

>> Demaceo: Look at it.

>> Julie: Look, it's GoodMaps.

>> Demaceo: GoodMaps.

Would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself and the work being done at GoodMaps?

>> Theresa: Absolutely, so I often tell people, think of Google Maps for the indoors.

So everybody's come to use turn by turn directions outdoors, but then when you get to your destination, you often have no clue where you're going.

Think of a major airport, a big convention hall, a shopping center, or any of these spaces.

And if you're living with any sort of impairment, whether you're blind or low vision, mobility impaired, neuro diverse, deaf, don't speak the language of the venue that you're entering in, you really are at a disadvantage, and often have to rely on others to be able to find your way with confidence and independence.

And so GoodMaps has actually innovated in this space and developed a US-patented computer vision algorithm that allows us to actually go into a space and adds route lines, adds points of interest.

And then it gets pushed into an app that anybody can use for free, for individuals regardless of their need or ability.

And GoodMaps actually launched out of a partnership with the American Printing House for the Blind.

So accessibility has been embedded from the forefront, at the beginning of everything that we design, not afterwards where we're trying to retrofit our technology to be accessible.

>> Julie: It's awesome, do you mind taking a step back and kind of telling us how you ended up at GoodMaps?

>> Theresa: Yes, it's a long, winding road.

[LAUGH] So I would say it all started with my desire to want to serve others, and really that comes from the long line of individuals, my family, who served in the military.

I actually started my career in the United States Coast Guard.

I was actually the intel officer.

And so I spent a lot of time with technology and radio men and women.

So that was kinda my first foray into tech.

Found that I didn't want to be the one who was being told what to do.

I kind of wanted to be on the other side of it and be the one setting the policy and shaping sort of the way that decisions were made.

And so I left and went to public policy school.

That's where I met my husband, which is important because it's how I got myself here to Louisville, Kentucky.

And then spent time postgraduation at McKinsey & Company, which is a global consulting firm.

I was traveling all over the country, and we started our family, and it was a really good time to kind of make a transition.

I went into city government, and so it was literally a 50% pay cut.

I mean, my dad was aghast when I left McKinsey, because he was like, what are you doing, you're on a pathway to make x amount of money.

But it was a chance to do something that was groundbreaking in city government, in my community, that was really more of the driver.

I sat down like, what are my nonnegotiables, right?

So when you're thinking about, okay, am I going to make a change, or am I going to choose something different, what is it that you really want more than anything?

So for me, it was I want to stay in Louisville, Kentucky, I want to be in the C-suite, and I want to do something that is creating positive impact.

And that idea of having independence and the dignity to be able to move on your own is something that is a universal want from almost everybody.

And so being able to be in a company that is really focused on enabling that for the broadest range of individuals is something that I think is influenced by all these different experiences that I've had where I've connected with folks from different backgrounds and spaces.

>> Anthoni: Personally, I feel like when I'm given multiple decisions to make, I kind of get hesitant.

So what kind of advice could you give people like me who are hesitant to make a decision?

>> Theresa: Yeah, I think don't be ashamed to follow what energizes you, don't live to somebody else's perspective on what it should be, and that's hard.

But I do think you've got to try to find where your passion is.

I thought that I needed to have the story make sense to other people.

As long as you can make it make sense, it doesn't matter, right?

So I think that's something that shifted in my brain.

Now, I'm like, I'll just do the wildest thing next that I feel compelled to do, because as long as it makes sense to me, it doesn't have to make sense anybody else.

And I'm gonna show up best in the spaces where my energy and my heart is pulled.

>> Julie: I liked how Teresa said what she wanted.

She's worked at a big four consulting but she's like, I want to be in the C-suite, I want to be a decision-maker, and I want my job to be in that position.

And now she works for this startup to work on meaningful things.

>> Theresa: Don't be constrained by others' ideas of success, chart your own path.

>> Demaceo: Thank you, yeah.

>> Julie: I think because I made a large pivot leaving Microsoft to work in Congress, I've been thinking, okay, this next step maybe not so large, but now I think seeing her pivot for something more impactful gives me hope that it's possible.

We just finished our last interview.

>> Demaceo: Yeah, a bit tragic, but we're going to start our own podcast.

>> Anthoni: Yeah, that'd be fun.

>> Julie: Today's the last day of the trip, and I don't know, I'm just excited, [LAUGH] I feel like it's just been such a bonding experience for all of us.

Right now, I'm happy and grateful, but I feel like when I go back, I think it's going to hit me all at once, so I think I might be sad [LAUGH].

>> Anthoni: It was a long journey.

>> Demaceo: It was a long journey.

>> Anthoni: Great experiences.

>> Demaceo: What was your favorite first?

>> Anthoni: My favorite first was probably the campfire.

>> Julie: Aw.

>> Demaceo: That's precious.

>> Anthoni: Everything I've experienced in the last three weeks, I'm definitely going to travel more to learn more.

There's a whole world out there.

I feel like the more I experience the world, the more I will be able to make better decisions.

I was a lot more introverted before the trip, but now I feel more confident talking to people.

I feel like I have that confidence and that energy to kind of talk to them and not be afraid.

>> Demaceo: Wow.

>> Anthoni: It's important to express you passions because people are willing to help you out.

I wrote, if you don't take risks, you can't create a future, you're freer than you think.

>> Demaceo: I love it.

[LAUGH] >> Julie: That's so cute.

>> Anthoni: Thank you.

I'm going to tell my family about my adventures, I would like to take them out more, kind of explore what's out there.

I found some answers, not all of them, but that's a good thing, because that just means that there's much more for me to experience.

And I definitely will push myself out there to experience these things and kind of find an answer for my own.

If there's no career path for me currently, just create it, take those risks.

Yeah, it may seem scary at the time, but at the same time, it could be innovative, it could be revolutionary, it could be fun.

>> Julie: Passing on the torch to you, mate.

>> Demaceo: Thank you.

I feel good, I had that internal conflict I was having with pivoting from environmentalism to software engineering.

Even though I knew that tech can be utilized for good, but actually meeting with these people face to face and seeing the smile on those faces too as well, being like these people seem fulfilled and happy with the course that they've pursued, resolved essentially this internal conflict, right?

Support your friends' delusions.

And don't take criticism from those that you wouldn't go to for advice, love Doot Doot, aka me, Demaceo.

This doesn't seem like things are impossible.

Don't think you have to pigeonhole yourself.

I never thought that I would be the type person to work in government for a variety of reasons.

But it seemed like something that I could do and still have that passion within the tech field while also merging just wanting to fortify that community centeredness.

I like how we slowly merged a single brain cell together.

>> Julie: [LAUGH] Yes.

>> Anthoni: Flossing random places.

>> Demaceo: Well, some more than others.

>> Julie: [LAUGH] This field of tech for public good needs everyone.

We need diversity of experiences, diversity of voices, representation, all the things to make decisions for society.

You don't have to have a certain skill.

I think it's just important that all of these different perspectives are at the table.

Go out and collect experiences.

Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door.

People are really important, people are at the center of everything, and not in a transactional way.

It's like you ride together as a community, as a group, I think it's worth it to do that.

And then once you do, the world is yours.

>> Randi: The tools that I have in my toolkit aren't all the tools, and so I need to always be learning from other people.

Everyday, people can make a huge change, and not just people in tech but literally anyone.

>> Theresa: It's really exciting to see the way that people see what's around them and want to make it different and then go for it.

And so I'd also challenge you to look inward and say, am I an entrepreneur?

Do I want to be the one to forge a path in a space that somebody hasn't forged yet, or to take a different turn?

So I think if you don't see what you want, create it.

>> Fernando: I'm optimistic, but not about technology, I'm optimistic about you guys.

I'm optimistic about people who are now looking at technologies as ways to make society better.

>> Anthoni: I'm definitely gonna miss both of you guys >> Demaceo: I'm gonna miss y'all.

>> Julie: I'm gonna miss you all, too.

>> Demaceo: [SPANISH] te extraño mucho >> Julie: Group hug, aw.

>> Julie: [SOUND].

[MUSIC] Wondering what to do with your life?

Well we've been there and we're here to help Our website has some awesome tools to help you find your path And you can check out all our documentaries, interviews and more Start exploring at roadtripnation.com