- [Announcer] Funding for "Election 2022" coverage is provided in part by AARP, A non-profit nonpartisan, membership association, 83,000 strong in North Dakota.

Find information on how to make your voice heard in the 2022 election at aarp.org/ndvotes.

And by the members of Prairie Public.

(patriotic instrumental music) - Hello, I'm Dave Thompson.

Welcome to Prairie Public, and AARP North Dakota's coverage of the 2022 election.

This is the debate for the US Senate.

Our guests are the Democratic candidate, Dr. Katrina Christiansen, Independent candidate, Dr. Rick Becker, Republican Senator John Hoeven.

Thank you all for being here.

Each of the candidates will get a one minute opening statement, and a one minute closing statement.

In between, they'll be debating questions chosen by myself and by our partner, AARP North Dakota.

By the drawing out of a hat, first up with our opening statement, is Senator Hoeven.

- Thank you, David.

Good to be with you, thanks to Prairie Public and AARP for hosting this debate.

It's a huge honor for myself, and my wife Mikey, to serve the people of North Dakota.

And you know, we're always guided by what's best for North Dakota.

Our two biggest industries are agriculture and energy, and I've worked very hard both as Governor and in the Senate to make sure that I'm a leader when it comes to agriculture and to energy.

I'm one of the top Republicans on the Ag committees, I'll be very involved in writing the "Farm Bill" as I have been in the past.

We write one every five years that's vitally important for North Dakota, vitally important for our country.

Same thing on energy, working to make North Dakota an energy powerhouse.

I fight back against the Biden Administration every day, and their agenda, which is wrong for North Dakota, wrong for our country, and I fight for the fundamentals that make our state strong, and our country strong.

I bring common sense North Dakota leadership to Washington DC, and I work for the people of North Dakota- - [David] We're done.

- Every day.

- Thank you.

Our second speaker is Rick Becker.

- Thank you Dave.

Thanks to Prairie Republic and AARP.

I'm a plastic surgeon in Bismarck, North Dakota, for the last 25 years.

I am also a State Republican Representative for the last 10 years, a very conservative Republican Representative.

I will be on the ballot as an Independent.

I am an Independent Conservative Republican, which is exactly what is needed in the United States Senate, and in America.

We need a fighter who will resist Biden's agenda, who will resist unelected bureaucrats like Anthony Fauci.

The wokeism that we are seeing rampant, inflation, spending, we need a fighter who will represent North Dakota.

I could not tolerate the idea of voters being reduced to a decision between a big spending Democrat, and a big spending Republican.

That's why I'm in the race, so I can go to Washington DC, and fight for you.

- The next speaker will be Katrina Christensen.

- Thank you for hosting this debate.

It's important because this election is between a career politician, an ideologue and a problem solver.

I am not a career politician, I'm not an ideologue.

John is what's wrong with American politics.

They get elected, they stay too long, they get lazy in their representation, and stale in their ideas.

We need leaders that are thinking about the future.

We need to think about the 21st century economy for North Dakota.

That means we need 21st century leaders.

I'm an engineer with industry experience, in agriculture processing, and energy.

I've invented new technologies.

I solve problems.

I'm a wife and I'm a mother, and I'm an educator from Jamestown, that understands the challenges that are facing North Dakota families.

And to solve those problems, we need to work together, embrace new ideas, and find common ground.

When we are facing problems, we need problem solvers, not people that wanna divide us or cling to old ideas.

- Thank you all very much.

Our first topic tonight, the Dobbs decision by the US Supreme Court, which reversed Roe v Wade, and sent the abortion decision back to the states.

Senator Lindsay Graham has proposed a national abortion standard.

First to Rick Becker.

What is your position on that?

- Well, I've not read the bill, however, I'm aware that it's a 15 week ban.

My first concern was constitutionality, however, I see that we have in federal statute under Title 18, I believe, that it's illegal to commit murder.

Recognizing that the unborn is a child, is a human being.

It is murder to commit abortion, and therefore I would be in favor of a ban, and the details just to make sure that it stays Constitutional.

We veered away from that, I see it in the votes with the career politicians all the time, and we need to stay true to that Constitution.

But I believe we can do that with a bill that has a federal ban on abortion.

- For Katrina Christensen, I've seen some advertising online saying you would be a megaphone for women's healthcare.

In your opinion, should Congress codify the ROE decision?

- Yes, actually, Roe provided states the opportunity to regulate their abortion care.

A federal ban would take away state's rights.

Roe v Wade balanced states rights with the rights of women and girls, and I think since the Dobs decision, we've seen just how terrible and reprehensible the government's interference, in women and children's healthcare is.

Women are experiencing sepsis, blood loss, they're being denied prescriptions.

Children are being forced to carry the pregnancies of rapists.

It is disgusting that we are interfering with the decisions that need to be made between a doctor and a patient.

The government does not belong in the doctor's office.

- For John Hoeven, your position.

- David, I'm the only person at the stage here who has consistently voted pro-life, and I've worked for pro-life policies at the state level, which we have here in North Dakota.

And I've worked for pro-life policies at the federal level.

I voted for conservative judges, and I will continue to advocate for life as I have throughout my career.

- Dave, I'd like to respond to that.

There's a couple of points.

First off, Katrina points out the doctor patient relationship, which I clearly understand.

And I find it curious, and a little bit inconsistent, when we're talking about the sanctity of the doctor patient relationship when it comes to abortion.

But it gets thrown out the window when we're talking about Covid.

As to Senator Hoeven, the remark about consistently pro-life; I will tell you that in 2013, I had some bad votes, I made a mistake, I admitted to it.

And what I have been since then is 100% pro-life.

The trigger law that is in effect because of the Dobbs decision I was a co-sponsor on.

Additionally, I will point out that although John says he's consistently pro-life, he has voted for funding to Planned Parenthood on at least two occasions, in 2015 and 2018.

Something that has been pointed out is immoral, and has been a big disappointment to the people that elected him.

- Well, I'd like to hear- - I would like to respond to that.

You both want government involved in these decisions.

We need to know how that's going to work, where are you gonna draw the line?

Are you gonna make a child carry a rapist's pregnancy?

Are you gonna make people who are facing complicating situations, die in the hospital, or at home, because the hospital won't accept them?

Are you going to restrict access to birth control?

Are you going to imprison doctors that just are fulfilling their oath?

All over the country Republicans say they're pro-life, but they avoid asking questions about what government regulations mean.

Even in the state of North Dakota, we don't really know what the Ag is going to do about atopic pregnancies.

It's foolishness, it's reprehensible.

- John Hoeven, you got a chance here- - I'm always gonna support life in regard to the life of the mother.

Obviously there's an exception there, and as you know, in North Dakota's law, there're also- - So you would let a child that's been raped carry a pregnancy?

We know where he stands.

- Again, in North Dakota's law, first there's an exception for life of the mother, also because it involves force against women.

There's an exception for rape, and for incest, so, those are addressed.

I think the question that Katrina needs to answer is, would she allow abortions right up to the point of birth?

As to Rick, I think, you know, again, he talks about being pro-life, but more than seven times he has voted- - [Rick] Not true, not true.

- For abortion.

He voted for abortion after there's a fetal heartbeat, after a baby is pain capable, even for gender selection.

As regards his assertion about me voting for Planned Parenthood, I've always voted for the "Hyde Amendment", which says no federal funding for abortion, and I've sponsored and continue to sponsor legislation that would defund Planned Parenthood.

- I just need to respond to John's talking point, he only has talking points, or meandering points.

But the reality is that he's being dishonest about abortion care.

When he's talking about those people that are having late term abortions, he's vilifying people that are in the most desperate moments, the most grievous moments, that no parent wants to be in, the toughest decisions imaginable.

It is important to me that I represent and protect all North Dakotans.

That's the thing that's important, not scoring cheap political points.

- And I also have one point to make, Dave, you know, John talks about this "Hyde Amendment", which prohibits funding of abortions, and that's what he clings to, and that's a very typical career politician move, because what he's doing is saying "Yes, it's not for abortions."

That's the "Hyde Amendment", but he's still funding Planned Parenthood.

The "Hyde Amendment" says you can send money to abortion providers as long as it's not actually for the abortion procedure, but you can help them pay for all of their other costs, which then frees up money to perform those abortions.

It's unbelievable that a pro-life person, because I believe John is pro-life, but he is so enamored with spending that he will vote time and time again for omnibus spending bills, even when it includes funding for Planned Parenthood.

- Dave- - John, you do have one last- - I'd like to make one final point.

If what Rick says is true, which it isn't, why do all of the pro-life groups support me?

Why do they all endorse me and not him?

- Well, I can answer that.

They have, when you have two candidates that are strongly pro-life, because North Dakota Right to Life has given me a 100% rating.

National bylaws say that they are required to endorse the incumbent.

That's why John Hoeven is endorsed instead of me.

- I do need to move on to the next topic if that's okay.

And we'll start with Katrina Christiansen on this one.

The inflation is a huge issue right now.

President Biden passed what he called "The Inflation Reduction Act", but the inflation still remains to be a major concern.

So how would you tackle inflation as a member of the Senate?

- Yes, absolutely.

I believe in free market economics.

When a company provides a product or a service that's valuable, they should be able to make a fair profit.

What's not right is price gouging.

It's stealing money from families and small businesses, and working people, and it goes into rich investors' bank accounts.

So, I think that what we need to really do is tackle price gouging by corporations, and we need to diversify and break away from OpEx manipulation of our energy sector.

John wants to play the blame game, he's always talking about Biden.

Well, let's talk about deficit spending during the Trump Administration.

He green lit $7.8 trillion worth of spending during the Trump Administration.

That didn't have any impact on the future?

I think it did.

In the meantime, he hasn't done anything to fight inflation, including capping insulin and prescription drug prices.

Where are you John?

Representing North Dakotans?

- John Hoeven gets to respond.

- So, I actually voted for legislation that would help reduce insulin prices, it's the Kennedy Amendment, and certainly Katrina can go check into that.

Also, it is the Biden tax and spend policy that is driving inflation, and I have fought against that tooth and nail.

Also, what I work on is the priorities I talked to you about earlier, Ag Energy, and I fight for small business in all of those areas, by addressing supply chain issues, by producing more energy, getting the Biden Administration to take the handcuffs off our energy producers, which I fight to do.

And by helping small business, by cutting the regulation to bureaucracy, and the red tape, those are the things that will increase supply, and that's what's gonna help us meet the demand and reduce inflation, which is a tax on everybody in America.

I fight for those things across the board every day.

- For Rick Becker, then.

- All right, well, there you've got John talking outta both sides of his mouth again.

He says one thing and does another, and that's his modus operandi.

What we have, in fact, I will tell you John, that's why I'm in this race, because I stood by and I listen to you talk to the people of North Dakota, and say, "We have to cut spending, we have to stop inflation."

When in fact you are the very reason we have it, because Katrina is correct, your spending under Trump was unbelievable.

There was not a bill that you didn't like, and didn't vote for.

Even under Biden, you voted for his $1 trillion fake "Green New Deal" infrastructure bill.

This has been a detriment, it contributes to inflation.

Additionally, Biden's war on fossil fuels has contributed to inflation.

We know that, but I will not let John off the hook because even when you look at core inflation and remove energy prices, we are at a 40 year high, 1982 as the last time inflation was this high, and it is affecting the elderly disproportionately, and lower income.

So it's his spending that it has made us where we are now, in an economy that is in dire straits, and I guarantee you is going to get worse.

- Katrina Christiansen.

- I just would like to say that listening to John complain about energy prices is kind of laughable.

He's a man who has major investments in oil and gas.

When we pay high prices, his bank account gets larger.

What incentive does he really have to work to make sure gas and oil are affordable?

It's time we have a senator who's really looking out for North Dakotans, not their own investment portfolio.

And I would just like to correct the record for both of these two people; during Biden Administration's first year, there were over 3,500 oil and gas leases done by the Biden Administration, which beat Trump's first year by over a thousand.

So the reality that Biden is stopping drilling in North Dakota is not true.

It's just not true, it's a talking point.

- John Hoeven- - Look, I understand Katrina has to go on the attack 'cause she supports Joe Biden, and she supports his policies, and those are not only choking off our energy development, again, across the board, his tax and spend policies are driving inflation up, which is why Rick's wrong, why I worked so hard to oppose those very policies, voting against the "American Rescue Plan", voting against the "Inflation Reduction Act", voting against his increase in the debt ceiling, also voting, and effectively killing, "Build Back Better".

And you know the irony of Rick Becker talking about saying one thing and doing another, I mean he is the epitome of that.

Let's start with the fact that he goes to the Republican Convention, tells all the Republicans that he's gonna honor their wishes, then he not only disregards 'em and runs anyway, he leaves the Republican Party, he's a filed Independent, and he's still trying to say he's a Republican, when all he is doing is undermining the Republican Party, helping the Democrat candidate, and helping the Democrat agenda.

- Rick Becker.

- Well yeah, this is very interesting.

Number one, I am a Republican, I mean, look it up.

I'm a state- - [John] Check your filing.

- I'm a state... John, I am a State Representative under the Republican Party, that is a fact.

- You're filed as an Independent, check your facts- - Check your facts, sir.

- Now, what we- - [David] Come on.

(Rick laughs) Wait a minute, now- - I just caught, we've got questions.

- Here's the thing, here's the problem.

- You're helping Katrina by running- - Here's the problem, sir, you're so interested in spending, that is why the American Conservative Union, who ranks all legislators, both US and state, gave you a 40% lifetime rating for taxes, budget, and spending.

Which is, by the way, John, an F, an F rating for John Hoeven.

For me, they've given, in the nineties, I have an A rating by the American Conservative Union for spending and budget.

The very thing, the very topic, that has put America in the position it is.

And both of my opponents are big, big, big spenders.

- [John] David, I've gotta respond- - John is talking out of the both sides of this mouth here.

He's talking about voting against the debt ceiling, how many times did he vote for that during the Trump Administration?

A heck of a lot.

The reality is that Biden isn't stopping any drilling that's happening in North Dakota.

The oil companies don't need to drill right now because they can make all of the money, it's simple market economics.

If you can exploit it, they will.

- Oh boy, look, there's so many things there, I've gotta respond to.

First off, you know, you're so wrong about that, because he's holding up drilling on federal land so they can't get any new leases.

Then he says, "Oh, well sure they have leases."

But he blocks 'em on getting the permits to drill the leases.

Then if they actually get through that process, which he's not letting 'em through, then the environmental community holds them up in court.

So then he goes to places like Venezuela, or Iran, or somewhere else to get energy, instead of just getting us from here in America- - John, there are 17,000 wells producing right now in North Dakota.

- I have worked my whole- - 17,000.

- I have worked my whole career to help North Dakota to produce more oil and gas, and we're an energy powerhouse for this country.

But Biden is stopping us, he's put the handcuffs on our producers, and Katrina's gonna help him, no question about it.

And I can see why these two take turns, they're helping each other.

Rick Becker is helping the Democrat Party, he's obviously trying to divide Republicans- - I am helping North Dakota- - He's trying help the Democrat party- - Challenging you- - They'll take turns, they're working together, you just watch, it's amazing to see.

- If two candidates up here seem to be attacking one, perhaps it's because that candidate is telling the greatest mistruths.

Okay, my question for you, sir- - Perhaps it's that you don't learn any new ideas.

You have stale ideas.

- Is, did you vote... My question for you is, did you vote for Biden's fake green, $1 trillion infrastructure bill, that gave him his biggest win, and that we know contributed to inflation and was bad for America?

Yes, you did.

That's all we need to know.

- No, we actually need to go through some of the facts there.

The facts are that we worked to kill, Senator Cramer and I worked to kill "Build Back Better", which was $5 trillion by working with Manchin and Sinema, so we not only actually got some infrastructure funding, we saved $5 trillion.

$5 trillion that otherwise wouldn't have gotten funded, the $5 trillion "Build Back Better".

Now Rick, you gotta check this out.

It passed the House, it actually passed the House, but we killed it in the Senate by working with Manchin and Sinema, and that saved $5 trillion.

And you know, you keep distorting the numbers on the infrastructure package.

We can go through that all day long.

But that's the difference between you and me, you model yourself, after some, I guess 16th century French philosopher named Bastiat.

So you sit and you vote knowing everything, and you think you're gonna create an outcome.

You don't.

I work to get things done for North Dakota.

We killed that spending legislation, you're right, it took a lot of hard work to do it, but we got it done.

You on the other hand, you just wanna parrot these talking points, and sit and vote no, and think you'll get something done.

- Listen, one point- - Yes, I think I get chime in here.

The reality is for Senator Hoeven, facts don't disconfirm his slogans.

The reality is there were 3,500 permits that the Biden Administration leased to oil and gas companies.

A thousand more than the Trump Administration during their first years.

The reality is oil companies have not been incentivized to invest in production, because they're making buck.

That's what you do in the United States of America when you can, you make as much money as you can.

That's what John did as Senator, he's made as much money as he can.

The reality is that his tired old slogan of "Unleash the Energy" doesn't hold up to our real challenges and concerns.

We should be concerned about competing with China, we should be concerned with China buying up our very valuable crop land.

Instead, we're not solving the problems of inflation up here, we're just talking about two records of Republicans that really haven't done much.

- Then why... (crosstalk) Right now we're producing 11 point...

Right now the United States is producing 11.8 million barrels a day.

At the end of the last administration, we were producing 13 million barrels a day, and we should be producing 14 or 15 million barrels a day.

But we're being held up by the Biden Administration, which you're gonna go down and help out and support.

Bad for North Dakota, bad for the country.

- My response is, that Katrina is completely wrong.

The Joe Biden, the Administration is completely killing fossil fuels.

It put America, it has put us and will continue to put us into a dire straight type of predicament.

We need a fighter to go against that.

Now, John Hoeven, when he votes for infrastructure bills that add to inflation, is not fighting Joe Biden, he's giving him wins.

He's hand in hand with him.

Now John has said, "Well hey, I helped kill 5 trillion."

Well, John, you got played, you got played, sir, because they were not going to pass "Build Back Better" and you know that.

Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin were not going to vote for that bill.

What they would've voted for was a watered down version of "Build Back Better", which in fact, they did pass.

They did pass.

So you accomplished nothing by joining the other 18 Republican Senators to become traitors and cross the aisle, and do what was wrong for North Dakota, instead of what was right.

- [David] I have to stop you right here- - It's amazing to listen to Rick talk about something that he, you know... One, he doesn't know Manchin, and I work with Manchin as Governor, and I've worked with him in the Senate.

He doesn't know Kyrsten Sinema, but here's the facts: Just like he sat in the House and voted no all the time, and was never a part of accomplishing anything.

He could have sat in the House and done that here, but the by "Build Back Better" 5 trillion passed the House, so he'd have been part of that when it was passed.

In the Senate, I worked to kill it.

You know, sometimes it's a lot more important to get an outcome, than to just sit and vote no, and get nothing done.

- You got played, man.

- Katrina, you get a chance.

- We stopped "Build Back Better", that's a fact.

- If we talk about records and failing energy policy, look no further than the Keystone Pipeline.

When Hoeven was in office, Trump green lighted the permit.

How come it didn't get built, Hoeven?

How come it didn't get built?

- Because you- - You had four years, you failed, you failed.

- Because Biden killed it, it was his first thing he did, was sign an executive order killing it.

- You had four years.

- Four years, John, and you failed.

- I passed it through the House, and the Senate.

- It not built, you had four years during the Trump Administration.

- Wow, that's- - You just don't listen to facts.

- That's the strangest argument I've ever heard.

Biden killed that, it's one of the first things he did when he came in office.

- Rick Becker, you got the last word on this.

- Well, I think North Dakotans know that John's a big spender.

He has a clear record, he has the ratings.

He can say anything he wants that makes it for an acceptable sounding excuse to do the wrong thing.

If it was a good idea, I am guessing that those 19 Senators, that, by the way, 15 of which have an F rating with Heritage Action for Liberty.

They are all big spenders, instead of just those guys, there would've been Conservatives joining them.

There were no Conservatives that joined John Hoeven, he's a big spender, that's what he does.

That's why we need a change.

- I need to move on, I need to move on- - All the spending I voted against.

I mean it's unbelievable, you're like a record, I mean, devoid of facts.

- Excuse me, I need to move on, to our next question.

AARP, this is their question about social security.

Social security has been a promise that should be kept, but there are those in Congress who want the program to be renewed, changed, or trashed, every five years ago.

Do you support that proposal, or how would you protect social security for the future?

John Hoeven first.

- One more time, the proposal, David, I didn't get all of it.

- In social security, that there are talk about trashing it, or changing it every five years.

- No, no, we need... Obviously it's very important that we keep social security in place, I've been consistent on that.

I think one of the biggest things that we have to do though, is get more people back in the workforce.

And that's why, you know, whether it's been as Governor or Senator, I've always worked to make sure that we support small business.

That's the lifeblood of the economy here in North Dakota, it's obviously the backbone of our economy in America.

And the key is that we continue to get more people back out in the workforce, keep the economy growing.

So now you have more people paying into social security, than drawing out, and that really is the solution for long term solvency.

- Rick Becker next.

- Right, there are a couple of things, we can look at working on the margins a little bit.

For instance, our lifespan has increased, social security benefits went from 65 to age 67.

We can make it go to 68, that'll be a 15% improvement just by itself.

We know that it's going to become insolvent, so we need to do one thing, and that is reassure seniors, we are not going to mess with the benefits that you receive and need to receive.

By the way, which are more important than ever, because inflation has been eating away at the value of what you receive.

Again, big spenders, more inflation.

The other thing, though, with Social security, we really do need to look for those that will be coming online to social security years down the road.

We need to transform, perhaps have a hybrid plan, and eventually move to a 401K style plan.

It's a Ponzi scheme at this time, big spending politicians have already spent all of the money there.

There's nothing there.

We need to turn it over a personal retirement type plan, so you know that the money you invest is still there for you.

- For Katrina Christiansen, then?

- Yes.

So I know how to protect social security, vote for me.

These two guys won't protect it.

Rick Becker has called it a foolish pyramid scheme, and Hoeven is best friends with Rick Scott, who's actually the guy who came up with sunsetting legislation every five years.

People have paid into this program, it is called security for a reason, during their lifelong employment.

John is super inconsistent.

He says that he holds the debt ceiling hostage when he is arguing with Rick, and when he wants to seem like a centrist, he says that he would protect social security.

But that's not true, last October, he was on board with holding the debt ceiling hostage, so that they could try to make some political move.

The reality is that there are over a hundred thousand social security recipients in North Dakota that were concerned that the debt ceiling wouldn't be passed, and what would happen to their social security payments, and their Medicare coverage?

The reality is we can fix this, it's pretty simple.

We just need to raise the taxable earnings cap, which is currently at 147,000, up.

There are CEOs that make a million dollars a year, that are not paying social security taxes on any money from 147 all the way up to their salary cap.

So, it's important that we just make those adjustments that we can.

- John, would you like to respond?

- Yeah, I mean, I've laid out a clear plan to make sure that we maintain social security, and we keep it solvent for the long term, and how I work to do that and will continue to work to do that.

And again, Katrina, I mean, kind of keeps making my case about how, yeah, I do vote against increases in spending and I'll continue to do that because we've got to grow the economy, slow down the rate of spending.

That's not only the way we keep these programs solvent, it's also how we reduce the debt and deficit over time.

And again, I've always supported a balance- - You didn't care about the debt and the deficit during the Trump Administration.

You can't have it both ways.

You just can't.

All night long, you can't have it both ways.

- And you should really get beyond just interrupting all the time and just have- - I'm a strong person, I'll be strong for North Dakota.

- Well, there's a difference between being strong and interrupting all the time.

But again, as I laid out my answer- - [Katrina] You were interrupting Rick.

That was a joke.

(candidates chuckle) - Again, it is about economic growth combined with reducing spending, which over time not only reduces the debt and deficit, but makes sure that these programs are strong and there for the long term.

- Rick Becker, if you'd like to respond.

- Just a simple response.

We need to make sure and we understand, this is an insolvent program.

It's on its way to insolvency by 2037.

We need to protect those that rely on it, and then change it over for the future beneficiaries.

Part of protecting, this can't be lost, the importance of this cannot be lost; part of protecting those that rely on a fixed income, is to pattern yourself, your voting record, on such that is not going to exacerbate inflation.

Every time that we see that ticker go up in inflation, it takes away the purchasing power of what the elderly receive with social security benefits.

John's voting record contributes to that, and it has contributed to that for the last 12 years.

- Last word, Katrina.

- I just think it's laughable that John wants to have it both ways.

The reality is we have solutions to making social security solvent.

I'm a little bit concerned with Rick, the way that he phrased that, we should not privatize social security.

People have played into that their entire lives.

We need to increase the taxable earnings cap, we just need a Congress that can get off its butt, and do some work.

- Our next topic is farm policy.

Congress is going to be soon rewriting the "Farm Bill".

So, a couple of parts of this question; what should or shouldn't be in the policy?

Should it be decoupled from the SNAP program?

And what about crop insurance?

Rick Becker first.

- Yes, so good questions in there.

You know, the "Farm Bill" of course, is more about SNAP benefits, or food stamps, than it is about crop insurance.

And I think we need to see reform there.

The people of North Dakota would like to see reform with food stamps.

I know for instance, that I would be in favor of reforming it, having say, work requirements, to have food stamps long term, John Hoeven voted against amendments to do exactly that.

But when we look at the crop insurance portion of it, I know all of your viewers are being inundated with mailers, and radio ads and TV ads, that are built on a mountain of lies and distortions, taking little clips, sound bites, out of context.

And it's so unfortunate that the John Hoeven campaign is using a campaign of fear mongering to manipulate farmers.

He says that I have said I will end crop insurance, I will vote to end crop insurance.

I have never said such a thing.

And I think what he is doing there is trying to take attention away from the fact that number one, whenever he says he's doing something good for the farmer, check, it also happens to be good, even better, for the banker.

Very interesting.

The other thing is that he consistently votes against what North Dakotans want, because we know that the leftist, the Biden agenda, have a 30X30 plan.

This is a federal land grabbing plan.

John Hoeven over the years has voted in favor of this federal land grab, time and time again, by making the land and water conservation fund permanent, by increasing the funding, by then turning the funding into a mandated spend.

He helped pass the "Great American Outdoors Act".

If you go to the USDA website and look up "Great American Outdoors Act", you will find that they claim, this bill that John Hoeven voted for, helps further President Biden's 30X30 federal land grabbing agenda.

- Katrina's next.

- Yeah, so I think that first of all, the "Farm Bill" and with the crop insurance, and the SNAP benefits, should stay together.

It's a really good partnership between our rural communities and our urban communities.

It is actually a bill that works on a bipartisan level, because we have people from both sides of the aisle that are willing to work on it.

But the thing that we need to have is a senator who's going to make sure that the market is fair for our farmers.

John likes to paint himself as a friend of the farmer, but where was John when there was price gouging on fertilizer?

Where was John on the price gouging for diesel?

The reality is, he wasn't paying attention, unless it's an election year.

During the Trump Administration, when we went into a trade war with China, North Dakota farmers lost $9.2 billion.

North Dakota was disproportionately affected by the trade wars.

Our farmers use their checkoffs to create new markets.

They want to have their own economic development.

And the trade war was the biggest government overreach and interference in the last decade.

- John Hoeven.

- Well, Rick's just wrong.

I opposed 30X30, but he never seems to let the facts get in the way.

Just like when he flat out says he opposes crop insurance, federal crop insurance, he opposes it, he opposes federal crop insurance, he opposes federal flood insurance.

Now he's turned himself into a pretzel trying to say he doesn't, but he goes back and forth so much, nobody can figure out where he is, except that he says he doesn't know jack about agriculture.

But he's been in the legislature 10 years, and it's our biggest industry.

Katrina wants to talk about crop insurance.

I have been deeply involved in previous farm bills, and I'll be involved in writing the next "Farm Bill", and I've made crop insurance a priority to make sure it's there for our farmers.

It's their number one risk management tool.

She keeps talking about Trump and China.

China waged- - It was $9.2 Billion, it was a lot of money.

- Here we go again.

- Yep, a lot of money.

- China waged a trade war on our farmers, and I worked with China, or wait, against China with Trump, to make sure that we pushed back against China's trade war.

Ask a farmer, they'll tell you, I worked with them, and with Trump, to get them through that.

They were going through low prices, bad weather, and a trade war, we got through that.

I am the top Republican on Ag appropriations, I'm the second ranking Republican on the Ag authorizing committee.

I'll be at the table writing a "Farm Bill" next year.

Neither one of them would be anywhere near it, and that's incredibly important for our farmers in North Dakota, and incredibly important for our country.

- Rick Becker next.

- Yes, I think... First I must say that what John Hoeven is saying is completely untrue.

The things he said I said, are completely untrue.

I'm not going to spend any more time on that, it's typical politician.

But I do find it interesting that he had a little Freudian slip just now.

He said he was working with the Chinese, and I'd like to bring up Fang, I don't know if that's in your list of questions.

Fufeng, wet corn mill processing in Grand Forks; and what we have here is a company controlled by China moving in to the Grand Forks area.

China, a country with a record of overt spying on the United States, of overt stealing of intellectual property, of overt human rights abuses, going into a location with a direct line of sight to the Air Force base and our drone program.

Hoeven was all for it, he was all for it.

Why?

Because he loves corporate welfare, and this was part of that deal.

Until the people started rising up and saying something about it.

He was silent on it.

When I first learned about it in February, I rose up, I was public and I said, "This must stop."

John Hoeven was silent.

February, March, April silent.

End of April, he finally comes out, and he says, "Well, you know, these security concerns that we have, it's really an issue that the Grand Fork City Commission needs to make sure are properly addressed with Fufeng."

That is not a leader.

Now, I'll grant you John, he has the right position now, and that is, "We can't have this."

Except, where was he?

Where was the leadership?

It was lacking.

Instead of him leading the people of Grand Forks and the people of North Dakota, and protecting us, we had to drag him across the line to finally say and do the right thing.

- Katrina Christiansen.

- Yeah, so I think it's really important that we stress how important trade deals are, in terms of growing North Dakota's market.

We also need to talk about processing.

North Dakota has a sixth of the value added processing that Iowa has, but we are close to them in our production.

The reality is that we need to have innovative processes, not the old technology that would be at the Fufeng plant.

To create new markets so that our farmers can have healthy margins.

For example, from that trade war, steel prices still haven't come down, and that impacts innovation, it slows down innovation.

So we need to make sure that we have a senator who understands that trade wars are bad for our growers, they're bad for our beef producers, and they're bad for our manufacturing industries.

- Senator Hoeven.

- Look, as far as Fufeng, right at the outset I said there are security issues that need to be addressed upfront before any decision is made.

The city asked me for help on doing due diligence, I did that due diligence, and then I came back to the city and I said, "You should not proceed with Fufeng.

You should instead try to work to find an American company to do the value added Ag piece, and we'll work with you to try to do that."

That has a lot more credibility than just saying right off the front, "Oh no, we're not gonna try to work with you City of Grand Forks, at all."

By doing the proper due diligence, I think I was much more effective in convincing them, and I think ultimately they won't proceed with it, because I actually went through the process to show them that I was willing to make sure I did it fairly.

And that's what I do, is I work with people to get an outcome.

But as far as Rick's assertion, at no point was I on board with it.

And right from the start, I said there are securities concerns here that need to be addressed before any decision is made, whether or not to proceed.

But I've made a career out of working with people to get things done, and I'm willing to put my record on agriculture up against either one of these two individuals, any day of the week, including working very hard to bring value added agriculture to this state.

And I'll continue to do that.

And again, you're right, the "Farm Bill" is incredibly important, and I'll be directly involved in writing it.

I don't even know if either one of these two candidates would end up on the Ag committee.

- Can I just?

That's insulting.

I have a PhD in Agricultural Engineering.

I've worked for Cargill, the largest privately held company in the world.

I've worked at an ethanol plant that processes corn into ethanol.

I've worked for a startup company that developed equipment for farmers, to add value to their own supply chains.

Why don't you do a little research, John?

(John chuckles) - Well there there's a big difference, I mean, working for one of the big...

Okay, you worked for Cargill.

Right now, one of the things we're trying to do is to get the four big Ag processing companies, one of which is Cargill, to treat our ranchers fairly.

And they're not doing it.

There's way too much concentration in that industry, so maybe the folks that are working for these big processing companies like Cargill, or that have worked there, should take a step back and say, "Hey, what's going on?

Our cattlemen, our ranchers, are not getting treated fairly by these big companies."

And I'm working hard to try to get more competition and more transparency, and better pricing, better treatment for our ranchers.

So there's a big difference between working for farmers, and working for a big Ag company.

- All right.

- Rick Becker.

- So, it would be great if you're interested in filibustering to do the right thing in the Senate, not so much at the debate, John.

What I would like to see is that you would be a leader.

Your position on Fufeng, right now, is correct.

I already granted you that.

The problem is we had to push you, push you to do the right thing.

(crosstalk) - I would like to comment that positions do not equal results.

I was actually laid off by Cargill, I was laid off by the startup.

So I know exactly how big Ag treats farmers.

What they do is they maximize their profits.

They offer the lowest possible price they can to farmers, they pay the lowest possible wages to their workers.

And when they need to, they lay 'em off.

That's what they do.

That's what big Ag does.

So when you talk about fighting them as a position, you haven't done it, John, there's no result there to talk about.

- John Hoeven, last word.

- Well, that's just not true.

I just passed legislation that set up a cattle contract library, so that these big companies have to disclose the contracts they're giving to all their producers.

I have consistently worked to get USDA to evaluate the over concentration in the packing industry.

And now we've got the Department of Justice doing it as well.

So I work very hard for our ranchers, and that is a... You know, Katrina made the statement about, because she worked for a big Ag company, she knew all about working for a farm, getting a good "Farm Bill", or working for farmers and ranchers.

I'm saying no, two different things.

And that's what I clearly pointed out.

- I'd like to move on to another topic, and this is student loan debt.

President Biden signed an executive order for giving $10,000 of federal student loan debt per person, plus another $10,000 for students who had Pell Grants.

I know it's tied up in the courts, but I like to start with Katrina Christiansen.

Is this good policy?

- Yeah, I think so.

It frees up income to cover costs that we're not dealing with from an inflation point of view.

We can have investment in homes, in cars, people can start families.

Unsurprisingly, John Hoeven doesn't support it.

Becker has written a letter to the editor about government programs, and if it creates a circumstance where he'll take advantage of it, he'll do that.

He took PPE loans.

John's banks benefited from the PPE programs.

Both of these two want people to get outta line as long as they're first in line.

This is what I'm talking about, John Hoeven, do you support the Tom Bradys of the world that can take out almost a million dollars in PPE loans?

Or do you support teachers, who have student loans that they struggle to pay off, and they wanna start families, and they wanna buy homes.

Who do you represent?

- John Hoeven.

- I have a long strong track record of supporting teachers, and we've got the greatest teachers in the world right here in North Dakota.

And I've worked with 'em all the way back to my governor's days, and I appreciate them so much.

I don't agree with the student loan debt forgiveness, 'cause I don't think it's fair.

And not only that, but a good example is, if somebody got their student loan through Bank of North Dakota, they still have to pay it.

But here's the reality, and people do need to think about this.

You're gonna pay for an an education, if you pay your own student loan, you're paying for your own education, you control that education, you control the cost.

If we're gonna forgive it, then you're gonna pay off...

The taxpayer pays it.

Now you're paying for someone else's education, over which you have no control how long they go or what they spend.

So let's be, you know, real about this, you're gonna pay one way or the other.

So, A, it's not fair, and B, you're much better off when you decide what you're gonna spend on education, and you pay it, versus putting it on the taxpayer, 'cause then you're gonna pay other people's.

- Rick Becker.

- Right, Biden's crazy executive grab with that action, really shows how far the executive branch will reach for votes.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Katrina's assertion that this is a good idea.

This is patently unfair to people who worked through college so they didn't have loans, for people who just paid off their loans.

For a next generation that's going to be going to college, but it won't be free.

For people who haven't gone to college, have gone to vocational school, have a job in the trades, how incredibly unfair.

We are burdening all of those people with the responsibility to pay the debt of those that are getting the free money.

Moreover, what we're looking at here, with this overreach in the executive branch, if you consider just how the bloated administrative state, which is under the executive branch.

Congress has abrogated its responsibility, it allows these bloated administrative agencies to act as a Fiat Congress.

They're spineless, and they don't hold people accountable.

Take as an example, Anthony Fauci; there is one senator in the senate, Rand Paul, who is holding him accountable.

Where is John Hoeven?

Why does North Dakota not have a senator who is going to stand tall, stand proud, have a spine, and have the stones, to take down these unelected bureaucrats that just snub Congress, and have no regard for the American people?

That's why we need a fighter.

That's why we'll keep saying that until the end of this debate.

We need a fighter in Washington DC, and it is neither Katrina nor John.

- Well, I just wanna comment on the hypocrisy here.

They are both concerned about how unfair it is that students who get their loans forgiven aren't being treated as the same as people who paid back their student loans.

I paid back my student loans, and I'm happy for the people that don't have to.

But what I think is super unfair is that I didn't have any say in who got PPE loans, or what they bought with it, like a super fancy boat.

The reality is, John didn't do anything to fight the cost of tuition rising in the state of North Dakota when he was governor.

What did he do to lower interest rates when he was at the Bank of North Dakota?

What's really unfair, is that we essentially have senate and congressional members, who have abdicated their roles fixing those problems to the executive branch, and the Supreme Court.

And so, Biden's gotta do something when they won't.

- John Hoeven.

- Well again, even if Katrina doesn't admit that it is unfair to forgive some people's loans and other people's pay 'em, I think you still gotta go back to the simple fact, you're gonna pay one way or the other.

You're either gonna pay for your own education, through your taxes if we're gonna forgive these loans, you're gonna pay for other people's education over which you have no control.

And as to Rick's point about Fauci and these unelected bureaucrats, I voted against all of the Covid mandates that Biden put forward, I co-sponsored 12 different bills to end those Covid mandates.

And look, this is why it's so important that we win back the majority in the House and the Senate, so we can stop these bureaucrats like Anthony Fauci.

- Rick Becker, your last word.

- Yes, again, I think nearly all of North Dakota will agree that it's unfair, that certain specific students' loans are paid off.

As far as the PPP money, I agree that was an incredibly wasteful bill.

It had so much abuse, there was billions of dollars going to fraud, to other countries overseas.

There's no rhyme or reason, they just threw, politicians like John, just threw money at the problem time and time and time again.

Again, contributing to inflation, not solving any problems.

Basically subsidizing the bad actions of Democrat governors, who are killing their own states' economies.

Additionally, when we are looking at the inflation component right now, which really involves every single question you have.

John Hoeven's there, and he's responsible, and he has to own that.

As far as small business, John claims to help small business with Covid, do you know that in some of those Covid bills, those Covid spending bills, were regulations forcing businesses to endure additional regulations that were costly, that they could not afford, because of the economy shutdowns caused by politicians themselves.

- I have one more issue to go, but time is running out.

So each of you will have one minute to respond to this, and it's a very simple question.

Do you think climate change is a real issue that Congress should be wrestling with?

John Hoeven first.

- Look, like it or not, we've got to deal with the climate change from the standpoint of adopting the new technologies that allow us to produce more energy with the best environmental stewardship.

That's why I'm leading the way forward for our coal-fired electric industry, to make sure that we have the programs in place, and I've worked through things like getting "Project Tundra" through loan guarantees and 45Q, to make sure that our coal fired electric industry can capture and sequester CO2, which we're doing.

Dakota Gasification is doing it, Coal Creeks moving forward, the Milton Young plant.

And the reality is, for the long term we're going to have a coal fired electric industry in this state, 'cause of the work that I'm doing with them to get it done.

Rick, on the other hand, he says, "No, no, no, no."

Just by fighting the Biden Administration, which I'm doing, that's good enough.

Somehow these folks are gonna stay in business just 'cause he is doing that.

That's not true.

They can listen to that, but our coal miners, our power plants, are not gonna be around unless we do the work I'm doing.

I'm committed to keeping them around for generations, and the coal mines, and our power plants, and those communities that depend on 'em.

- Rick Becker next.

- Yes, what a very interesting question, especially in light of my two opponents.

We know that Katrina's going to support Joe Biden's climate extremism to the detriment of North Dakotans.

And we know what John Hoeven's record is, and he has supported a huge amount of spending to combat global warming.

In 2012, contributing to global warming fund.

But more recently, he claims to crack the code, which really is just a politician language to say, "We're gonna take your taxpayer dollars and give 'em to special businesses that we like, a little handshake under the table."

What we're looking at is an entire agenda that he buys into, instead of fighting, he buys into it.

With this 45Q, we're looking at an Al Gore carbon credit scheme that he's taken, revolutionized it somehow, and it's still a carbon credit scheme that taxpayers are paying for.

There's one beneficiary of this tax credit scheme, and that is going to be John Hoeven's cronies, private businesses, private industry, private individuals.

- Katrina Christiansen, last word.

- So as a senator, you need somebody who sees a problem as an opportunity.

And climate change is an opportunity for North Dakota farmers.

Farmers can monetize carbon dioxide sequestration, the America I know doesn't bury its head when it sees a problem.

What it does, is it takes it on, and it beats everybody else at the solution.

The reality is, is that the carbon dioxide capture that John keeps talking about isn't really going to solve our climate change problems.

It's just a boondoggle that exploits taxpayers who don't have good representatives.

It's going to go to Summit Carbon, and they're gonna make a few million or billion dollars.

But the reality is, is that most carbon dioxide capture technologies have been shuttered because they're not economical.

The reality is, is that carbon dioxide is a pollutant, and you can't make money on a pollutant.

- We are now out of time, so, we now go to closing statements, and Katrina Christensen is first.

- Okay.

So our country faces huge issues like securing our energy future, making sure that we provide quality education to our families, making sure that social security and Medicare are available for our seniors.

It's really important that the people of North Dakota have an economy that works for them, that's fair, that benefits them, that gives good paying jobs for the hard work that they do, and security in retirement.

But we can't get there using the same old tools, or having representatives like John Hoeven clinging to their old ideas.

I just want you to know that I am committed to ensuring that North Dakota has a bright future.

I am an engineer and I'm an educator, I've been working at solving problems for a long time, and I'm really good at it.

And I am motivated to do the right things in North Dakota, representing you in the United States Senate.

A vote for Katrina is a vote for the future.

Thank you.

- John Hoeven.

- Well again, thanks for hosting this debate.

You know, I got one opponent who is committed to the Biden agenda, and that's bad for North Dakota, and that's bad for our country.

And another opponent who'll pretty much say anything, and do anything to just try to get elected, including leaving his own party.

You know, on the other hand, everything I do is, I am focused on what's best for North Dakota.

We talked about writing a "Farm Bill", we talked about doing the things we need.

Whether you like it or not, you can't stick your head in the sand.

We've gotta take these steps to keep our energy, our coal-fired electric energy industry, our oil and gas guys, in the game, and operating, and in business for the long term.

I'm taking those steps.

I'm doing that work.

I fight for small business.

I fight against the Biden agenda, including his tax and spend policies.

I went through all of the spending bills that I have voted for, including working to kill "Build Back Better" to get a result, versus simply voting no, and having that bill pass.

I was there, I worked with Kevin Cramer to do that, I bring common sense leadership to Washington DC, and I'm asking the people of North Dakota, on behalf of myself and Mikey, for your vote.

- Becker next.

- North Dakota has a clear choice.

We have one candidate that will fully embrace Biden's woke, Marxist agenda, but we also have a candidate who is a squishy, moderate rhino, that will not fight against Biden's agenda, and in fact will, just like he did, vote for a $1 trillion spending spree for green energy.

Most of us will agree, America is in trouble.

We will agree that our economy is in trouble.

We will agree that inflation is killing us.

I think we also can agree that the people responsible are the politicians, the status quo career politicians that have been there for 10 to 15 years.

The question then next is, well, how do we solve this problem?

There is no way we can expect to solve the problem by sending the same people back to Washington DC, that caused the problem in the first place, that's why I'm in the race.

Voters of North Dakota have a clear choice; you can vote for someone who is in favor of bringing home the bacon, or vote for someone who's interested in saving America.

- My thanks to our three candidates tonight, my thanks also to our co-sponsor, AARP North Dakota.

Remember, election day is November 8th.

Early voting is underway, or it will soon be underway across North Dakota.

For Prairie Public, I'm Dave Thompson.

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Find information on how to make your voice heard in the 2022 election at aarp.org/ndvotes.

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