- [Narrator] Eight months after Hurricane Helene, we look at how Western North Carolina is rebuilding.

State lawmakers and Congressman Chuck Edwards join us to discuss what's next.

This is "State Lines."

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[bright music] [bright music fades] - Welcome to "State Lines."

I'm David Hurst.

Hurricane Helene changed Western North Carolina in ways we're still seeing today.

Many parts of the region are open for business, but tourists still haven't fully come back.

This show is all about looking at the recovery.

I talked with some Asheville business owners who say, "We are open and we need your support."

- Anything else for you today?

- [David] 2024 was expected to be a normal fall tourist season in Asheville: tourists filling the streets, artists selling their work, and restaurants filled with customers.

But then, disaster struck.

- Hurricane Helene.

- Hurricane Helene.

- Hurricane Helene, the mounting death toll at least 182 lives lost, hundreds still unaccounted for.

- [David] Hurricane Helene slammed into Western North Carolina with unprecedented force transforming peaceful rivers into raging torrents that tore through communities.

- That was a massive storm.

We're in the French Broad River corridor right here, and we had water levels up to 24.6 feet.

- [David] Business owners stood in shock, staring at their damaged shops and restaurants, not knowing if they could ever recover.

- When the hurricane hit, we were kind of all in disarray.

We lost electric power all across the town.

So there was that moment of trying to figure out what to do, where do we go from here?

- [David] This isn't just a story about a storm, though.

It's about what happens after the cameras leave, when a tourist town has to rebuild its entire economy.

You see, every year, Western North Carolina welcomes about 11.5 million visitors.

Those visitors spend about $7.7 billion supporting local businesses, artists, and thousands of jobs.

But after Helene hit, visitor spending dropped by about 70%.

The River Arts District, one of Asheville's most beloved areas, took some of the worst damage.

- What took 20 years for artists and entrepreneurs and developers to create took about 20 hours to wash 80% of it away.

- [David] Recovery has been slow but steady across the region.

Some businesses managed to bounce back quickly.

Others are still finishing renovations and repairs to reopen.

But the message from each business owner is the same: they need visitors to come back.

- We're up and running.

We want people to come and support the local businesses.

A lot of businesses were struggling to get through that period of the hurricane, but the ones that were able to open up are looking for support.

- We're gonna welcome you back with open arms.

We definitely need visitors, right?

We are a visitor economy, and we wanna share this place with everyone.

You know, we are back on our feet.

It's gonna look a little bit different in places, but that's okay.

You know, we need your help and we're inviting you back.

- [David] When disasters hit tourist towns like Asheville, there's often a gap.

Buildings get repaired, but visitors take longer to return.

The news showed a lot of damage, but Western North Carolina isn't closed.

Most restaurants, hotels, and shops are open right now waiting for visitors.

- So we wanna come back bigger and better and stronger and really stay true to Asheville's DNA.

- And who are with me down in the studio to dig a little deeper are three state lawmakers who represent Western North Carolina.

We've got Senator Tim Moffitt, Representative Lindsey Prather, and Representative Jake Johnson.

Welcome to you all.

Thanks for being here.

- Thanks.

- Thanks for having us.

- Senator Moffitt, I wanna start with you.

That sentiment we heard in that story, business owners are ready for people to come back, is that what you're hearing from your constituents?

- It is, and candidly, after watching the video, the weight of it just made us relive through that entire storm and that catastrophe.

But it's true, and 90% of the mountains are open for business.

We appreciate you putting this panel discussion together because it's important for us to convey to people that we experienced a severe blow to our economy, but we are resilient and we've been able to stand back up and we would like people to come back and visit with us.

- And Representative Prather, build off that a little bit.

What do you think are some of the biggest obstacles for folks coming back?

- Absolutely, so I think the first one is just getting the message that we are reopen.

You know, the second is what the speaker in the segment just said there at the end.

You know, things are gonna look a little bit different.

There might be some menus that are limited right now in terms of what farmers are able to get things to the restaurants.

So just getting the message out there that we are open, but making sure people know that it is gonna look a little bit different, but it's very important that they come back and help support the recovery.

- Representative Johnson, what does that look like getting the message out there, especially ahead of summer and fall tourism season that many business owners rely on?

- Absolutely, and I represent the Lake Lure, Chimney Rock area that has very similar situations.

We're seeing that is the primary economic driver there, that state park.

The views which you're used to seeing when you get there, the river right beside it, totally different landscape now.

So we're looking at how do we rebuild, not only rebuild, but rebuild more resilient so when people come back they can enjoy it.

And it will again look very different, but we'll still have those same characteristics.

- We'll talk about Lake Lure here in just a minute, but Senator Moffitt, I wanna talk about money a little bit first.

The House and Senate have both passed the state level about $1.4 billion in relief for Helene, just over several different packages.

The House just approved about $464 million in another relief package.

What's the latest with the Senate?

What are discussions going on there?

- Yeah, so the Senate's definitely going to either take up the House relief effort probably as part of a broader budget negotiating strategy, but I do believe that we will probably exceed what the House is appropriated.

We were looking at more, probably $700 million more to round it out to about $2.1 billion total that we've been able to appropriate from Raleigh to the mountains.

- You just have to one-up your colleagues in the House, don't you?

- We do, we do.

- If there was ever a time.

- For real.

- Representative Prather, talk about how we get that money to the people who actually need it in your district.

What does that look like?

- Yeah, so I think that's really important for folks to keep in mind.

You know, we hear about money being appropriated in Raleigh and then we need to make sure that we're following through, not just patting ourselves on the back and saying we did a good thing, but following through and making sure that money is actually getting to folks on the ground.

So there's a lot of ways, I know that all of us legislators are continually checking in with our constituents to make sure that they're getting what they need, right?

If we're standing up some kind of grant program, we're following back up to make sure, "Hey, are you able to access that application?"

So we're trying to get that message out there for sure and just make sure that folks know what is available out there, and make sure folks know that they are willing, you know, that they're welcome to inform us of what they still need.

So I know there's a lot of needs still out there, including things like grants for small businesses and, you know, flexible funding, revenue replacement for local governments.

So things that we will continue to work on, but wanna make sure folks know about the stuff that we've already passed for sure.

- And this is obviously a process, Representative Johnson, but to Representative Prather's point, there are still needs out there.

What is your message to some of the constituents who might be getting a little impatient about the time it's taking to get these funds?

- Oh, absolutely, and I can understand the frustration.

The first thing we did when we were putting together this Helene package, we asked for what money had already gotten out the door.

And this is an important time to distinguish between obligated funds and funds that have already been expended and already been spent.

That means likely they're already in the hands of the constituent and the business that needs them.

Obligated money may not be.

It may be obligated, but the check hasn't actually gotten to the person who needs it.

So when we're looking at what pots to invest in, whether it be small businesses... You know, we had the wildfires out west, fire mitigation was a big one in this one.

We're looking at all these pots.

We need to look at one high priority in the sense of public safety, but also what money has been spent versus what hasn't.

If the application process hasn't even opened yet and there's another pot of money that has been totally spent, we wanna make sure we prioritize that one first to make sure we're getting to that immediate need.

And if there's something, there was about $50 million in this last bill that we called back that wasn't being spent, there wasn't as much of a demand for it, let's put it toward programs people actually need.

- Senator Moffitt, let's pivot to some of the federal funds.

FEMA recently announced that they decided not to agree with North Carolina's request to cost match the state funding.

How does that impact, if any, some of the discussions going on in the General Assembly?

- I think at the very beginning, our goal was to keep FEMA at a 90% reimbursement to the state.

So when we were able to secure 100%, I felt like that was a bonus that our state received in a very difficult time.

To be declined on the continual 100% reimbursement is a challenge for us, it's disappointing, but again, we were kind of prepared for the 90/10.

So I think its dramatic effect on our recovery is not gonna be there, but it would certainly be nice if they would, you know, stick with 100%.

- [David] Representative Prather, you wanna weigh in?

I saw you nodding there.

- Yeah, so I agree that it wasn't a total surprise when the request was turned down.

I do think, you know, folks might think, "Well, how big of a difference is 10% really?"

It's hundreds of millions of dollars that our state is now going to have to continue to put into this recovery that we had been hoping would come from the federal government.

The context here being that this is a 60 plus billion dollar disaster.

We've all known from the very beginning that we were never gonna be able to make everyone whole, right?

There's not gonna be $60 billion put into this recovery.

But I certainly think we can do more than $1.4 billion and I certainly think that we need to expect more from the federal government.

We just can't handle this on our own in North Carolina; we need continued support.

- We'll chat more later; we'll hear from the congressman about some of the federal efforts there.

But first, we do want to look a little bit more about some of the cleanup efforts.

Let's hear from Frank Graff.

He visited Lake Lure to really see what's going on down there and how crews are still removing debris that's still underwater.

- The water was rising, so we were seeing things floating and then I was like, "What is that floating there?

It looks like the top of a boathouse."

And then, it would go right over the dam and then that's when we were all like, "Oh my goodness, this isn't good.

Something's not right."

Like, there's no way a whole home should be going over the dam in the waters.

- [Frank] Asheton Bowles' mind still reels from experiencing Hurricane Helene tearing through Lake Lure in September 2024.

Life is slowly returning to normal at Bowles' Lake Lure pottery studio.

Online orders saved her business the first few months after the storm.

The studio has reopened for customers, but memories of the storm are haunting.

[serious music] What debris didn't go over Lake Lure's dam covered the lake surface.

- The debris that came into the lake was probably 30 acres of solid debris.

Now, the whole lake was full of debris, but there was solid debris.

They know from doing sonar, some of that was 50 feet deep.

So it was a debris pile unlike anything Lake Lure's ever seen and, of course, hopefully we'll never see again.

- [Resident] We pulled vegetation debris out, construction debris from businesses and homes.

We pulled propane tanks out.

Even the propane tanks that were below ground, they got eroded out during the storm as the water's coming down the valley and they ended up in our lake.

- What you can't see is so much of the damage that was done to our infrastructure and that's because we have a subaqueous sewer system.

So if the water's in the lake, you can't see the sewer system, right?

You can't see all the subsurface debris and sedimentation that's underneath the lake.

Those are things that, the optics are great, and that's both good and bad, isn't it?

It's good because it certainly looks better here, but the downside is people feel like, "All right, you're okay.

We need to move on to something else now."

- [Frank] Most of the debris floating atop the lake has been removed; it took almost four months to clear it out.

All that debris ends up here.

Look closely and you'll discover images of life frozen in time.

[calm music] You're looking at just a portion of the almost 26,000 cubic yards of debris pulled from the lake; that's about 3,000 dump truck loads, and that's not counting what was removed from roadways and property.

The debris that can't be recycled will be trucked to hazardous waste landfills.

But the lake is still filled with more than 1 million cubic yards of sediment that washed down from the Rocky Broad River Watershed and through the Hickory Nut Gorge.

Lake Lure has a maximum depth of 104 feet.

Hurricane Helene's flood waters filled in almost half of that depth with silt.

In some more shallow areas, the lake is almost completely filled.

To make matters worse, nobody knows what additional debris, including fuel tanks or other toxic chemicals, are mixed in with the sediment.

On the other side of the dam, the lake has been drained as far as possible to allow trucks to get into the lake and haul out sediment and debris.

After that, cranes on barges will be deployed to scoop out sediment and debris from the bottom.

- [Supervisor] We're saying that we are open with restricted access to the lake until we can get the lake safe and clean enough to make sure won't be a long-term environmental impact, and that'll take a while.

- Senator Moffitt, Representative Johnson, you both represent that area where Lake Lure is.

Representative Johnson, I'll start with you.

What goes through your mind when you see those images and hear those perspectives?

- One, how long are we really looking at here?

As they mentioned in the video, it's not just what you see, it's what you don't.

And when you talk about Chimney Rock being above it there, and if you look at the images from Chimney Rock, there's nothing left there.

In a lot of areas, it is completely gone.

There was only one place for it to go, and that's into the lake.

So you don't only have the floating debris that you see what's below the surface.

And what was really so frustrating for us was the timeline that it took to get that approved on the subsurface debris removal.

They were out there working and that was good to show progress, but the frustrating part for us is if you've already got the equipment out there, you're already on the ground, why can't we just go ahead and get it at the same time.

What you're waiting on are those work orders to come down and that sign off from FEMA that they will reimburse that work.

When that doesn't happen, it puts the contractors in a really bad position when they're gassed up and ready to go.

- And Senator Moffitt, same experience for you?

- For the most part.

I'd like to touch on a couple of things that my colleagues have spoken about.

I think one of the frustrating things for us is time is of the essence to us, time is of the essence to our neighbors to our small businesses up in the area.

And the pace of government is woefully too slow.

It seems like we can make appropriations to foreign countries much easier with far less accountability than we can make appropriations to take care of our own people.

To Representative Prather's point, yes, we need the federal government.

We need all hands on deck at the federal level to help us recover from this because this is greater than any state can recover from on its own, certainly any community.

But the length of time that it takes, the amount of red tape, the frustrating process that our people are put through is really unacceptable to me, and this is where we need to focus our efforts on preventing this type of thing from further victimizing people in our state in the future.

Again, one of our oversight committees, I made the comment that I honestly felt like this was the first disaster that ever hit our state because none of these processes were up and running.

You could not stand anything up.

So those of us in the mountains are working very diligently on trying to create a resilient process that we can deploy in the future to help our folks.

- And in more of an urban area, Representative Prather, you represent Buncombe County, obviously Asheville.

Is that need the same as it relates to cleanup that you're seeing?

- Absolutely, yeah.

So, you know, there was a wide range of impacts on Buncombe County.

A lot of the area that I represent is rural.

Some of those places were hit hard and some of those places weren't.

I also represent parts of Swannanoa; that was hit very, very hard.

I'm sure most people in North Carolina know that town's name now.

And I think a lot of people didn't realize the emotional impact that all the debris would have.

Even when it feels like you're making headway and getting a lot of the debris out when it's still there, you see it every day.

People see it every day when they leave their house and when they go to work, and it's just a daily reminder that it's gonna be a long time to recover from this.

And I absolutely agree on, you know, speed is important, we have got to work quickly, and it's one of the reasons that I really hope that the Senate will take up this recovery bill separately from the budget so that we can get that money on the ground to folks who need it.

- And Representative Johnson, looking forward, we obviously still have a disaster we're dealing with eight months later, but looking forward to future natural disasters, what have we learned from this storm that we can implement in the future?

- Well, I think, one, the immediate response time to this was an issue out where we were at.

A lot of the assets we have in the state are in the eastern part of the state; that's just where they're housed at.

When we know a storm is coming, we need to have those assets closer to the impacted areas.

Now I understand it doesn't make sense to put 'em on the ground if they're gonna get taken away with the storm, but we have to be staged in a way that makes more sense and it doesn't take days to get response in some of these areas.

On the long term, I think we've actually set some good things in motion in this latest bill that we have.

For instance, I'll say the constituent portal that we're fighting for very hard, if I'm a constituent in my district that my house was destroyed, my business was lost and maybe I need assistant from one or two different federal agencies, where do you start?

I mean, when you're cleaning up your personal life, how do you start in knowing how to navigate state and federal government?

This constituent portal is gonna be a one stop shop to say, "I need this, this, and this," and it'll direct you to all those.

And it'll have the forms already there that you fill 'em out, it submits it for you, and you go ahead and get in the queue to receive assistance instead of it taking weeks to months to even figure out what that process looks like.

- We look forward to that.

Unfortunately, that's all the time we have this afternoon, but I appreciate you guys joining us, your insight, your inspective work on this important topic.

Thank you.

- Thank you so much.

- And we talked about state money and cleanup, but the federal government really makes a lot of the big decisions about disaster recovery.

Let's hear from Kelly McCullen.

He interviewed Congressman Chuck Edwards about those efforts.

Kelly?

- Thank you, David.

We're joined now by Representative Chuck Edwards of the 11th Congressional District that covers 15 Western North Carolina counties.

Congressman, thanks for being on the show and talking about this very valuable and important topic: tourism in Western North Carolina.

Good to see you.

- Good to see you too.

Thanks for having me.

- Okay, so from our seat here, we have covered storm debris cleanup, FEMA, your request for how to modify FEMA, all the things related to cleanup.

Lost in the message has been tourism.

Exactly how close is Western North Carolina to welcoming back the numbers of tourists that people there are used to receiving every summer?

- Yeah, well, that's an important question.

Thanks for asking it.

We're open for business.

The lights are back on.

We've got clean water running again.

While we have many small businesses that are still working to recover and our agriculture industry is working to recover, we have so many more businesses that are open in Western North Carolina.

Most of the debris has been cleaned up.

We've got rafters back in the water.

Our fishing guides are back in the water.

Most of our trails are open.

Many of our craft stores and breweries, distilleries, wineries are open.

We lost a tourist industry back in October, a month that's really critical to Western North Carolina, but we're open now for business and we certainly welcome visitors from all over the country.

- Those small businesses can't have very large advertising budgets, so when you're trying to speak to North Carolina, much less the world, what have small businesses faced with getting the word out that it's okay to come back, get a hotel room, come have a glass of wine the next morning, get up and eat breakfast and go rafting?

- Yeah, well, the challenge is just as you said.

We have so many small businesses that don't have much of a marketing budget.

And so myself, my comrades and other members of the media are trying to get the word out that we still have so much to offer in Western North Carolina, and we definitely need folks to come and visit us to help get small businesses back on their feet after such a tragic, tragic storm.

- I don't know if there's been a scientific study, if you will, but which small businesses remain most susceptible to economic damage as summer launches and the money's not coming in...

Which businesses also are doing quite well and need the added support?

- Well, it's a mixed bag.

Most of the problem right now with small businesses is they're still arguing with their insurance companies.

Before FEMA or small business administration can kick in, the settlement has to be made between businesses and their insurance companies.

And many small businesses are finding that they didn't fully understand that we didn't fully understand what was in the small print when we signed our policies, and now there's a lot of back and forth.

Once that is done, then those businesses can continue to recover.

But the story here is that we have so many that have reopened.

We've got craft stores, we've got museums, our wineries, much of our ag tourism is back up and running.

Our rafting companies, our river fishing guides are back in business.

And we sure could use folks coming back into Western North Carolina to enjoy all the beauty and the great things that we have.

Museums are open, playhouses are open.

There's so much to do in Western North Carolina.

- Are there any areas in particular that could use a tourism boost?

I know that might be putting you on the spot, but it's a fair question.

Asheville's a big city.

It's recovered miraculously some people say.

And then, there's the rural North Carolina mountains that have great tourist attractions.

A little bit more difficult to climb those mountains on two-lane roads.

How do you see it?

- Well, I wouldn't pick any one particular area.

I represent 15 counties.

All 15 counties need tourists.

We need to regenerate our revenue.

So wherever you want to go, whether it's Asheville, North Carolina, Mount Mitchell, Haywood County, further west Henderson County, there's something there for everyone.

And wherever you would have gone before the storm is where we would like for you to go now.

- Last question.

With all this debate we're going to see on national, international news about FEMA and funding and how best to handle storm recovery and the state's response, does any of that interfere with tourists or should tourists set that aside and focus on having a good time?

- Tourists should set that aside and focus on having a good time.

There's a lot of dialogue for us to have on how we need to repair FEMA to deal with the next storm.

Nothing that we decide is going to affect our recovery in this storm, although there's still plenty of things that we can do.

The important thing right now is we've got good clean air, fresh water, beautiful landscape, lots of things to do in Western North Carolina, and I invite everyone to come and enjoy the mountains of North Carolina's 11th Congressional District.

- That's a great sentence on which to finish.

Congressman Chuck Edwards, 11th District, 15 Western North Carolina counties, thank you, sir, for being on "State Lines" and this special look at Western North Carolina.

- Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

You come visit too.

- That's all from us.

David, back to you.

- Thanks, Kelly, and thank you at home for watching.

Email your thoughts and opinions to statelines@pbsnc.org.

I'm David Hurst.

We'll see you next time.

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