>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

CONSIDER MAC WE WILL DEFEAT THOSE WHO SEEK OUR LIVES.

WE WILL BRING BACK ALL OF OUR HOSTAGES.

WE WILL ENSURE THAT GAZA NO LONGER POSES A THREAT TO ISRAEL.

>> BUT AS THEY CONTINUED TO BOMBARD GAZA, OPPOSITION GROWS.

NOW, ONE OF NETANYAHU'S MINISTERS SAY THAT ISRAEL IS COMMITTING MORE CRIMES.

WHAT HE DESCRIBES AS A PRIVATE POLITICAL WAR.

THEN, UKRAINE REELS FROM DAYS OF RUSSIAN ATTACKS.

TWO FORMER U.S. OFFICIALS URGE EUROPE TO SEIZE FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS TO FUND UKRAINE'S DEFENSE.

THEY MAKE THEIR CASE.

>> WE HAVE REUNITED AND BACK HOPE AND ASPIRATION AND EXCITEMENT.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS TRANSFORMATION, REALLY.

213.

HOLLYWOOD MEETS ABLE SOCCER CLUB.

THE UNDERDOG STORY CAPTURING HEARTS.

>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FILOMEN M. D AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, GANZ COONEY FUND, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO REACHING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, APPROPRIATE I BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN FT. CHRISTINA BELLANTONI.

ISRAELI STRIKES OF GUILT DOZENS IN GAZA IN THE PAST FEW DAYS ALONE.

THE DEATH TOLL THERE IS NOW OVER 50,000.

THE IDF ISSUED EVACUATION ORDERS FOR MOST OF SOUTHERN GAZA.

IT WARNS OF AN UNPRECEDENTED ATTACK THAT IS COMING AS ISRAEL PLANS OCCUPY 75% OF THE ENCLAVE WITHIN TWO MONTHS.

LET'S GET THE LATEST NOW WITH JEREMY DIAMOND WHO IS IN JERUSALEM.

JEREMY, LET ME START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT THE LAUNCH OF GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION DISTRIBUTION OF AID INSIDE OF IT WAS SET TO KICK OFF THIS WEEK, AND A LOT IS NOT KNOWN ABOUT THIS ORGANIZATION.

THIS HAS BEEN A DECISION MADE ON THE PART OF ISRAEL WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE UNITED STATES.

WE ARE HEARING, TO CIRCUMVENT THAT YOU AND OVERSEEING EIGHT.

HOW HAVE THINGS GONE IN THE PAST FEW HOURS TODAY?

>> Reporter: THIS IS THE FIRST FULL DAY OF OPERATIONS FOR THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN OPERATION.

WHAT INITIALLY BEGAN AS WHAT PICTURES WOULD SUGGEST WOULD BE AN ORDERLY DISTRIBUTION OF AID TO PALESTINIAN CITIZENS WITHIN HOURS DEVOLVED INTO ABSOLUTE MAYHEM AS THOUSANDS OF DESPERATE, HUNGRY PALESTINIANS OVERWHELMED THIS AID DISTRIBUTION SITE RUN BY THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION IN SOUTHERN GAZA IN THIS AREA OF RAFFA.

THEY'RE TRYING TO GET THEIR HANDS ON WHAT LITTLE DEBT GOVERNMENT.

WE KNOW THAT FROM SEVERAL VIDEOS, YOU COULD HEAR GUNFIRE ERUPTING.

I AM TOLD THAT THE SECURITY CONTRACTORS, THE AMERICAN SECURITY CONTRACTORS ON THE GROUND DID NOT FIRE A SINGLE SHOT.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY FOR ITS PART SAID THAT IT DID NOT FIRE ANY SHOTS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA OF THAT DISTRIBUTION SITE, BUT IT APPEARS THAT THEY MAY HAVE FIRED SHOTS FURTHER AWAY TO TRY AND DISBURSE THAT CROWD.

THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS THAT THIS IS JUST ONE PART OF THE ENORMOUS CHALLENGE THAT THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION IS GOING TO FACE, GETTING UP ON THE GROUND, AND A LOT OF THAT --AND THE IMAGES WE ARE SEEING TODAY --STEM FROM THE LACK OF AID HAS GOTTEN INTO GAZA SO FAR EVEN AS ISRAEL ALLOWED A LIMITED QUANTITY OF AIDS SINCE LAST WEEK --CLEARLY, IT HAS NOT BEEN ENOUGH TO ALLEVIATE THE HUNGER CRISIS IN GAZA AND TO AVOID THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE FLOODING INTO ONE OF THESE DISTRIBUTION SITES, FORCING THOSE AMERICAN CONTRACTORS TO WITHDRAW IN WHAT I AM TOLD WAS THE PROTOCOL FOR THIS KIND OF SITUATION.

SOMETHING THAT THEY HAD INDEED PREPARED FOR AND ANTICIPATED BUT SOMETHING THEY DID NOT HOPE WOULD HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY NOT ON DAY ONE.

>> YEAH, THIS FOUNDATION, DESPITE THE CHAOS THAT ENSUED TODAY SAID THAT IT WOULD, QUOTE, NOT BE DETERMINED AND PLANNED ON DISCIPLINING AID TO 1 MILLION GAZANS BY THE END OF THE WEEK.

FROM WHAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM EXPERTS, HOW REALISTIC IS THAT GOAL?

>> Reporter: I SHOULD KNOW FIRST OF ALL THAT THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION SAID THAT THEY DISTRIBUTED 8000 FOOD BOXES WITHIN THE LAST 24 HOURS, TOTALING 462,000 MEALS, BUT YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THAT IS STILL A AWAY FROM RAMPING UP TO THE NUMBERS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHETHER THAT IS THE 1.2 MILLION PALESTINIANS THEY HOPE TO FEED WITHIN THEIR FIRST WEEK OF OPERATIONS, OR THE ENTIRE 2.1 MILLION ABLATION OF THE GAZA STRIP, WHO THEY SAY THEY ED -- AIM TO FEED ONCE THEY ARE FULLY OPERATIONAL AND RAMPED UP.

AND HUMANITARIAN AID ORGANIZATIONS SAY THAT THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE WAY THAT AID SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED IN GAZA.

THEY EXPRESSED NUMEROUS CONCERNS, NOT ONLY ABOUT A LACK OF PERCEIVED INDEPENDENCE ON THE PART OF THIS GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION, WHICH IS PART OF AN ISRAELI APPROVED AND ULTIMATELY CONCEIVED MECHANISM, BUT ALSO, THE DANGERS THAT PALESTINIANS MAY FACE AS THEY WILL HAVE TO TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES TO GET TO THESE SECURED DISTRIBUTION SITES.

THREE OF WHICH ARE CURRENTLY IN SOUTHERN GAZA.

ONE IS IN THE CENTRAL PART OF THE GAZA STRIP.

NONE OF THOSE SITES ARE IN NORTHERN GAZA AS OF YET, ALTHOUGH THAT FOUNDATION SAYS IT PLANS TO ESTABLISH TWO SITES IN NORTHERN GAZA OVER TIME, BUT THERE ARE ENORMOUS CHALLENGES HERE, AND THAT'S NOT EVEN GETTING TO THE FUNDING ASPECT, AND THE SUPPLY OF FOOD THAT THESE U.N.

AGENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN SUPPLYING THE MAJORITY OF THE AID TO GAZA WILL BE HOLDING AS THEY VOWED NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS, CALLING INSTEAD FOR ISRAEL TO OPEN THOSE CROSSINGS AND ALLOW SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES OF AID TO GET INTO GAZA.

>> JEREMY DIAMOND GROUP REGARDING LIFE IN JERUSALEM, THINK AS MUCH.

LET'S GET MORE ON THIS AS ISRAEL APPEARS TO BE LOSING SUPPORT EVEN AMONG TRADITIONAL ALLIES.

HE SAID THE COUNTRY WOULD NOT BE FORCED INTO SOLIDARITY WITH ISRAEL AND THAT THEY MUST THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHAT STEPS TO TAKE.

AS THE EU RELEASE ITS TRADES AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH ISRAEL.

ITS TRADE TALKS AND ANCIENT EXTREMIST SETTLERS WHILE CANADA AND FRANCE HAVE ALSO IMPLEMENT DETENTIONS.

OPPOSITION TO THE WAR IS GROWING INSIDE OF ISRAEL, AS WELL.

AMONG THOSE SPEAKING AT IS FORMER PRIME MINISTER YOUR CRITICISM IS NOT NEW.

YOU HAVE BEEN OUTSPOKEN ON THAT FRONT FOR MANY MONTHS NOW.

GOING TO THIS LEVEL AND SAYING THAT ISRAEL IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES IS DIFFERENT.

I WANT TO READ FROM YOUR PIECE.

HE SAID, WHAT WE ARE DOING IN GAZA NOW IS A WAR OF THE STATION.

INDISCRIMINATE LIMITLESS, CRUEL KILLING OF CIVILIANS.

WE ARE NOT DOING THIS DUE TO SOME DISPROPORTIONATE OUTBURST RATHER, IT IS THE RESULT OF GOVERNMENT POLICY KNOWINGLY DICTATED.

YES.

ISRAEL IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.

SO WHAT HAS CHANGED IN YOUR VIEW, AND WHY ARE YOU SPEAKING OUT PUBLICLY AND GLOBALLY NOW?

>> WELL, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, I'VE BEEN SPEAKING FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND I CRITICIZED THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT AND PARTICULARLY THE LACK OF ANY VISION ABOUT WHAT COMES NEXT.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO IN ORDER TO END THE WAR, RELEASE THE HOSTAGES, AND START TO MOVE IT TOWARDS SOME KIND OF POLITICAL HORIZON THAT WILL START PERHAPS A PROCESS THAT WILL AND THE MILITARY CONFRONTATIONS.

WHAT HAPPENS PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST FEW DAYS IS THE STATEMENTS MADE BY ISRAELI CABINET MINISTERS --THE LEADING CABINET MINISTERS DOES THAT SAY WE SHOULD STOP GAZA.

WHAT IS IT IF NOT A WAR CRIME?

HOW CAN A SERIOUS PERSON REPRESENTING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT EXPLAIN IT OUT IN SUCH AN EXPLICIT MANNER THAT WE SHOULD STOP GAZA --THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO SUPPLY OF BASIC FUNDAMENTAL HUMANITARIAN NEEDS TO A COUPLE MILLION PEOPLE LIVING THERE.

THERE ARE TERRORISTS THAT WE NEED TO FIGHT.

BUT THIS IS NOT A WAR AGAINST HAMAS.

THIS LOOKS MORE AND MORE LIKE A POLITICAL WAR OF THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER AND THE CABINET AND THE GROUP NOW REPRESENTING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT INSIDE ISRAEL AND OF COURSE, THE WORLD, ARE COMMITTING ACTIONS THAT CAN'T BE INTERPRETED ANY OTHER WAY.

>> AS WE HAVE NOTED, CAUSE OF CONDEMNATION AND THREATS, OF ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS REEVALUATION OF TRADE PARTNERSHIPS AMONG TRADITIONAL ALLIES HAVE NOW BEEN DOMINATING NEWS HEADLINES OVER THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS.

I WANT TO PLAY A SOUND FROM GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERZ ON THIS.

>> TO INFLICT SUCH SUFFERING ON THE CIVILIAN VIBRATION AS HAS INCREASINGLY BEEN THE CASE IN RECENT DAYS, CAN NO LONGER BE JUSTIFIED ON THE GROUNDS OF A FIGHT AGAINST HAMAS TERRORISM.

>> WE EVEN HEAR FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO HAS NOT GONE TO THOSE LENGTHS BUT WHO HAS SAID THE WAR SHOULD COME TO AN END.

WHEN YOU HAVE ALLIES LIKE THAT MAKING COMMENTS TO THIS DEGREE, AND EVEN THREATENING APPLICATIONS FOR TRADE RELATIONSHIPS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ISRAEL AND ITS INCREASING WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE ISOLATION ON THE GLOBAL STAGE.

>> WELL, CERTAINLY, IT LOOKS LIKE IT, AND I MUST SAY I DID NOT LISTEN TO WHAT THE NEW CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY SAID.

I KNOW HE IS A FRIEND OF ISRAEL.

AS IS PRESIDENT McCRONE -- MACRON.

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS HELD TO BE A GREAT FRIEND OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

HE ALSO SAYS THAT WE SHOULD NOT SUPPLY THE BASIC FUNDAMENTAL NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE OF GAZA.

THEY CAN STOP.

I THINK THE INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNATION OF THE POLICIES OF NETANYAHU --AND THE GROUP OF MINISTERS --THE MESSIANIC EXTREMISTS THAT ARE NOW LEADING THE GOVERNMENT AND DICTATING TO NETANYAHU WHAT SHOULD BE DONE AND HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE, I THINK THEY WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SAYS AND CHANGE DIRECTION, AND I PERSONALLY HOPE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL TAKE THE LEAD IN MAKING THIS EFFORT.

I THINK NO ONE BUT HIM CAN ACTUALLY SUMMON NETANYAHU TO A PLACE THEY LET BOTH LOVE VERY MUCH, THE OVAL OFFICE, FACING CAMERAS, AND THEY SHOULD DO IT AND SAY TO NETANYAHU, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

IT'S TIME TO END THE WAR.

IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO BUT IT CERTAINLY IS TODAY, TO END THE WAR AND TO SUPPLY FOR THE HUMANITARIAN NEEDS FOR THE PEOPLE IN TERROR.

THERE ARE MANY OF THEM.

RELEASE THE HOSTAGES AND MOVE FORWARD.

IT IS TIME.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK HE HASN'T DONE THAT THUS FAR?

HE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY WHEN HE WAS IN THE OVAL OFFICE JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS, SEEMED TO EMBARRASS THE PRIME MINISTER BY ANNOUNCING THAT HE'S GOING TO BE SPEAKING WITH IRANIAN OFFICIALS ABOUT A POTENTIAL WHY NOT DO THIS THEN?

>> LOOK.

YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW IN THE WORLD THAT CAN INTERPRET AND ANALYZE PRESIDENT TRUMP?

I AM NOT ONE OF THEM.

I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THAT HE CARES.

I RESPECT HIM FOR THIS BECAUSE HE SPELLED IT OUT ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

IN WASHINGTON.

HE DIDN'T DO IT A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.

IT'S TIME TO DO IT NOW, AND I HOPE YOU WILL DO IT.

I REALLY CERTAINLY THINK THAT HE IS THE ONLY PERSON, PERHAPS, THAT CAN FORCE THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER TO COME TO TERMS WITH REALITY.

THE REALITY OF WHAT IS BEING ACCOMPLISHED BY HIS GOVERNMENT.

>> THESE ARE SERIOUS CHARGES, AS YOU KNOW, THAT YOU ARE LEVELING AGAINST YOUR MINISTER.

HOW SHOULD THEY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

HOW DOES HOW SHOULD THEY BE TREATED?

WHAT CHARGES, IF ANY, SHOULD THEY BE FACING FROM THEIR OWN POPULATION OR FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY?

>> IT IS NOT ENOUGH THAT I'M ACCUSING THEM.

YOU DON'T WANT ME TO BE JUDGE AND EXECUTOR.

I HOPE THAT THIS GOVERNMENT WILL DISAPPEAR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

I BELIEVE THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THESE POLICIES, OF THESE STATEMENTS, OF THE TERRIBLE DAMAGE THAT WAS CAUSED BY THIS GOVERNMENT.

TO THE INTEGRITY OF ISRAEL AND THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND I HOPE THE MOVEMENT OF PROTEST, WHICH IS EXPANDING RAPIDLY AND ALL THE STREETS OF OUR COUNTRY, TEL AVIV, JERUSALEM AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THAT WILL GAIN ADDITIONAL FORCE IN ORDER TO CREATE THE NECESSARY POLITICAL PROCESS THAT WILL LEAD TO IMMEDIATE ELECTIONS AND THE REMOVAL OF THIS GOVERNMENT.

>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, ONE THING I HEAR REPEATEDLY FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY CRITICAL OF PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS THAT CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS AND ARTICLES LIKE YOURS THAT SPEAK TO A GLOBAL AUDIENCE ONLY EMBOLDEN SUPPORT FOR PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, EVEN AS YOU SEE RESPONSE TO THE CONDEMNATION AND THE CONCERN FROM TRADITIONAL ALLIES.

HIS RESPONSE IS ONE OF DEFIANCE.

SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE WHO WORRY OR CRITICIZE THESE TYPES OF ACTIONS THAT YOU ARE TAKING AS ONLY EMBOLDENING THIS GOVERNMENT?

DOMESTICALLY.

>> THIS IS THE TYPICAL DILEMMA.

THIS IS THE TYPICAL DILEMMA FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME AND THOSE WHO SHARE WITH ME MY OPINION.

YOU ARE IF YOU SAY IT.

YOU ARE IF YOU DON'T.

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS MY MORAL CHOICE IF YOU STOP IT?

MIGHT MORAL CHOICE IS TO SPEAK UP IN THE MOST EXPLICIT MANNER.

I DO IT INSIDE ISRAEL.

THE ARTICLE WAS PUBLISHED IN A VERY IMPORTANT MAGAZINE IN ISRAEL.

THEY SPEAK ON THE MEDIA HERE.

I'M NOT ALONE.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT SHARE MY OPINION, AND IN FACT, IN SPITE OF THE IMPRESSION MADE IN SUPPORT OF NETANYAHU, THAT HE IS EMBOLDENED, THE FACT IS IN ALL OF THE POLLS THAT WERE TAKEN IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS, INCLUDING THE LAST FEW DAYS, THE POWER OF HIS COALITION IN THE PUBLIC OPINION IS ERODING RAPIDLY.

IF WE WILL SUCCEED, WE SEE THE SUPPORT OF WESTERN LEADERS FROM GERMANY.

FROM GREAT BRITAIN, FROM FRANCE, FROM CANADA, FROM COUNTRIES AND THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT, TO CHANGE THE TIDE.

THAT WILL BRING THE DEMISE OF THIS GOVERNMENT VERY CLOSE.

>> AND YET THERE ARE STILL A SOLID 21 SEATS THAT STILL VOTE FOR PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IN EVERY POLL, EVEN THE MOST RECENT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> LOOK.

THERE IS A POLITICAL BASE THAT IS LOYAL TO THE PRIME MINISTER, BUT THIS POLITICAL BASE SEEMS TO BE WEAKENING ON A DAILY BASIS.

21 SEATS.

ENTIRELY INSUFFICIENT TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.

IT IS TRUE THAT NETANYAHU CURRENTLY ENTERTAINS A CERTAIN SLIGHT MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT, BUT THIS IS THE REFLECTION OF ELECTIONS WHICH TOOK PLACE NEARLY 3 YEARS AGO.

NOW, WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION AND THE PUBLIC OPINION SPEAKS UP AND IT'S GOING TO GROW, AND IT'S GOING TO BECOME MORE AGGRESSIVE IN THE MANNER OF HIS OPPOSITION TO THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

AGAIN, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE WILL KNOW THAT THE VOICE OF ISRAEL THEY COME ACROSS IS NOT THE VOICE OF NETANYAHU.

THE VOICE OF ISRAEL IS THE VOICE OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT THINK LIKE ME.

THEY THINK WE HAVE TO STOP THE WAR.

THEY THINK THAT WE HAVE TO RELEASE ALL THE HOSTAGES RAPIDLY.

THEY THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT NO UNINVOLVED PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE HURT BECAUSE OF THE EXPANSION OF THIS MILITARY OPERATION, WHICH IS ENTIRELY UNJUSTIFIED AND DOESN'T SERVE ANY IMPORTANT INTEREST TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

>> AND AS RECENTLY AS TODAY, A LEAST HOSTAGE THAT I INTERVIEWED --THAT INTERVIEW WILL AIR TOMORROW --TIME AND TIME AGAIN I HEAR FROM HOSTAGES, AND I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM.

THEY HAVE SAID SOME OF THE MOST FEARFUL MUMS OF THEIR TIME IN BRUTAL CAPTIVITY HAS BEEN WHEN THE IDEA HAS BEEN ATTACKING BECAUSE THEY ARE CONCERNED AND WERE CONCERNED ABOUT INADVERTENTLY BEING KILLED IN THOSE ATTACKS AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEIR CAPTORS BECAME MORE AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS THEM AS WELL.

I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DISPROPORTIONATE CIVILIAN TO COMBATANT RATIO THAT HAS ONLY GROWN AND EXPANDED OVER THE COURSE OF THIS WAR.

NOW, ISRAEL'S LONGEST IN ITS HISTORY.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE CONDUCT?

I KNOW YOU WRITE ABOUT SOME OF THIS IN YOUR PIECE, BUT IF YOU COULD SUM UP YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE CONDUCT OF SOME OF THESE SOLDIERS.

THEIR EXHAUSTION AT TIMES.

THE CONCERNS ABOUT THOSE THAT REFUSE TO SERVE NOW, AND CRITICISM THAT THEY, AT TIMES, APPEARED TO BE LEADERLESS IN THEIR CONDUCT IN GAZA.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

>> WELL, CORRECT THAT MORE AND POPULATION OF ISRAEL AND IN THE ARMY, WHICH IS MADE UP MOSTLY OF ISRAELI SOLDIERS --THEY ARE CITIZENS LIKE ME EXCEPT THAT THEY ARE SERVING AS RESERVES IN THE ARMY.

THEY ARE BECOMING SICK AND TIRED OF WHAT APPEARS TO THEM TO BE SOMETHING WHICH IS TOTALLY IN OPPOSITION TO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS THE REAL INTEREST OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, AND WHEN THE SOLDIERS ARE SICK AND TIRED AND MANY OF THEM SEEM TO NOT WANT TO CARRY ON, MANY BAD THINGS MAY HAPPEN IN THE BATTLEFIELD AND OUTSIDE OF THE BATTLEFIELD.

AND I HOPE THIS WILL BE ANOTHER INGREDIENT IN FORCING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

>> MR. LAST MOMENTS I HAVE YOU, I WANT TO GET YOU TO WEIGH IN ON YOUR VIEWS OF WHERE THINGS STAND WITH IRAN NEGOTIATIONS.

IN INCREASED REPORTING THAT WE HAVE SEEN, THAT IF THESE TALKS FALL THROUGH, THAT ISRAEL MAY BE PREPARED TO LAUNCH IMMINENTLY.

IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU WOULD DO?

>> LOOK, YOU HAVE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WHAT HE CAN DO AND WHAT HE SAYS.

NETANYAHU IS WELL KNOWN.

WE ARE WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE POLITICAL THREATS HE IMPOSES TO THE IRANIANS.

I STILL BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL SUCCEED IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

HE SAID JUST THE OTHER DAY THAT THERE ARE GOOD SIGNALS COMING FROM THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

OBVIOUSLY, IRAN IS A THREAT AND A DANGER.

NOT JUST TO THE STATE OF REGION AND PERHAPS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD.

NO ONE BETTER THAN PRESIDENT TRUMP IS AWARE OF THAT AND IS PREPARED TO DEAL WITH IT.

HE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT IRAN WOULD NOT COME TO TERMS WITH AMERICA ON NUCLEAR --THINK --BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.

I HOPE THERE WILL BE AN AGREEMENT AND I HOPE THIS AGREEMENT WILL MAKE SURE THERE IS STRICT SUPERVISION ABOUT ANY FUTURE PLANS OF IRAN TOWARDS NUCLEAR.

TRUMP SAID, AND PRESIDENT BIDEN BEFORE HIM, AND PRESIDENT OBAMA BEFORE THEM, THEY ALL SAY THAT AMERICA WILL NOT ALLOW IRAN TO HAVE A NUCLEAR BOMB.

I HOPE THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL TAKE CARE OF THIS AND IN ANY EVENT, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS INCUMBENT UPON ISRAEL TO TAKE IRAN BECAUSE I THINK AMERICA CAN DEAL WITH IT EITHER BY NEGOTIATIONS OR BY MILITARY ACTION IN A MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE MANNER.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR JOINING US.

>>> AND TOMORROW MARKS 600 DAYS SINCE THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK WHEN ONE MAN'S HARROWING JOURNEY THROUGH 505 DAYS OF HAMAS CAPTIVITY BEGAN.

HE WAS HELD UNDERGROUND IN TUNNELS FOR MUCH OF HIS STAY THERE AND HE ENTERED BOUTS OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, MENTAL ABUSE, AND STARVATION.

I SPOKE WITH HIM ABOUT THE DARKEST DAYS AND THE MEMORIES THAT WON'T LET GO.

YOU CAN WATCH THAT INTERVIEW ON OUR SHOW TOMORROW.

>>> UKRAINE HAS COME UNDER FIERCE RUSSIAN BOMBARDMENT IN RECENT DAYS AND NOW, A MOOD SHIFT FROM ITS EUROPEAN ALLIES.

GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERZ ANNOUNCED THE DECISION TO FIRE MISSILES.

UKRAINE FACES AN URGENT QUESTION.

HOW TO FUND ITS FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

MY NEXT GUEST HAS ONE POSSIBLE ANSWER FOR EUROPE TO SEIZE PRESENT RUSSIAN ASSETS.

DAVID WORKED UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN WHILE WALI ADEYEMO WAS DEPUTY SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY.

THEY TRAINED ME ON THE PROGRAM.

DAVID, LET ME START WITH YOU.

THIS IS A PIECE YOU HAVE ENTITLED MAKE MOSCOW PAY.

YOU SAY IT IS TIME FOR RUSSIA TO PAY FOR THE WAR THAT IT CHOSE TO WAGE.

WHY ARE YOU CALLING ON EUROPE TO SEIZE THOSE FROZEN ASSETS NOW.

MIND YOU, THIS COURT HAS BEEN ONGOING FOR OVER THREE YEARS.

>> IT'S BEYOND GREAT TO BE HERE.

WE WROTE THIS PIECE NOW BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS REGARDING THE UKRAINE WAR ARE EVOLVING SO THAT IT IS BECOMING MORE RATHER LESS NECESSARY FOR EUROPE TO SEIZE THE MOBILIZED ASSETS IN ITS JURISDICTIONS FOR TWO REASONS.

THE FIRST IS THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS MADE VERY CLEAR BY WORD AND ACTION THAT HE INTENDS TO CONTINUE HIS WAR AGAINST UKRAINE.

THE WORD HE HAS CONTINUED TO WHICH OF THE PAST THREE YEARS AND THAT CONTINUES THROUGH THE ONGOING MISSILE STRIKES THAT HAVE BEEN LAUNCHED AGAINST KEITH AND ELSEWHERE IN THE ONGOING OFFENSES THAT THE RUSSIAN MILITARY IS CONDUCTING.

THIS WILL WILL CONTINUE.

HE IS NOT READY TO BE --HAVE AN UNCONDITIONAL CEASE-FIRE THAT KYIV HAS ACCEPTED.

SECOND, USAID HAS BEEN WINDING DOWN.

THERE IS NO REASONABLE PROSPECT THAT THIS CONGRESS WILL APPROVE ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR UKRAINE AND WITH THOSE TWO REALITIES PUT UP AGAINST EACH OTHER THERE IS A GAP THAT OTHERS NEED TO FILL.

THE EUROPEANS CONFLICT BY ACQUIRING A SUB STAIN ABOUT SOURCE OF SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE FOR YEARS TO COME INTO FILLED THE VOID THAT THE UNITED STATES IS LEAVING.

>> WHILE FREEZING THESE ASSETS SHOCKED THE WORLD OR CONSIDERED RATHER AGGRESSIVE OR UNPRECEDENTED AT THE TIME, AND THEY HAPPENED WITH THE APPROVAL OF PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO YOU WERE WORKING WITH AS A WAY TO HAVE LEVERAGE OVER PRESIDENT PUTIN.

THIS OBVIOUSLY SURPRISED PRESIDENT PUTIN AS WELL AS HIS AIDS IN THE KREMLIN.

THAT MONEY IS YET TO BE UTILIZED.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO EUROPEAN ALLIES ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS THE TIME?

PRESIDENT BIDEN IS NO LONGER IN OFFENSE.

--OFFICE.

I HAVEN'T HEARD A QUOTE FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOUT WHAT TO USE THIS.

>> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THAT WHEN WE TOOK THE ACTION OF FREEZING RUSSIAN SOVEREIGN ASSETS, THE BIGGEST SURPRISE WAS THAT EUROPE TOOK ACTION.

INVADED CRIMEA, THEY MOVED THEIR ASSETS OUT OF THE UNITED STATES TO EUROPE AND OTHER COUNTRIES THINKING THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED, BUT EUROPE TOOK THIS ACTION TO FREEZE THOSE ASSETS IN RESPONSE TO RUSSIA'S UNPROVOKED INVASION OF UKRAINE, AND THROUGHOUT THIS WAR, EUROPE HAS TAKEN A NUMBER OF STEPS TO HOLD RUSSIA ACCOUNTABLE.

TODAY, IT IS TIME TO TAKE THIS STEP, WHICH IS USING SOVEREIGN ASSETS.

AND THE REASON THAT NOW IT MAKES US TO DO THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE NEED.

UKRAINE CANNOT CONTINUE TO PAY FOR THE DEFENSES IT NEEDS TO SUPPORT ITS ECONOMY WITHOUT EUROPE TAKING THIS ACTION AND THE EUROPEAN PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY TO BEAR THIS COST ALONE.

FUNDAMENTALLY, PART OF WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ADVOCATED FOR HIS BURDEN SHARING IN TERMS OF THIS WAR, AND THE PEOPLE WHO OWE THE MOST IN TERMS OF BURDEN HELPING SUPPORT UKRAINE.

THEY OWE THIS TO THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT RUSSIA VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW AND AS PART OF THAT, THEY OWE THE UKRAINIAN'S SUPPORT TO REPAY AND REBUILD THE COUNTRY.

>> AS THIS DECISION WAS MADE, I REMEMBER AT THE TIME, WHILE IT HAD SUPPORT FROM EUROPEAN ALLIES, IT WAS AN AGGRESSIVE MOVE AND A RATHER UNPRECEDENTED MOVE.

THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT PRESIDENTS BEING MADE THERE.

THAT IS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT CONTINUES TO BE RAISED AMONG LEGAL EXPERTS.

JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THIS DECISION.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> THE QUESTION OF WHAT ULTIMATELY HAPPENS TO THOSE ASSETS, WE ARE VERY CLEAR THAT THEY WILL NOT BE GOING BACK TO RUSSIA ANYTIME SOON, AND WE ARE VERY CLEAR THAT THEY WILL BE LEVERAGED AT SOME POINT TO PAY FOR THE RECONSTRUCTION OF UKRAINE.

THAT IS THE POSITION.

AND IN THE MEANTIME, RUSSIA DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT MONEY.

WE ARE USING WINDFALL PROFITS FROM THOSE ASSETS IN ORDER TO PROVIDE LOANS TO UKRAINE FOR MILITARY EQUIPMENT.

WHETHER YOU CAN CEASE AND USE THE MOBILIZED ASSETS IS A COMP LOCATED LEGAL ONE, AND WE HAVEN'T FOUND THE PERFECT SOLUTION TO THAT, BUT I EMPHASIZE THEY'RE NOT GOING BACK TO RUSSIA, AND THEY WILL BE LEVERAGED TO PAY FOR THE RECONSTRUCTION OF UKRAINE.

>> SO YOU ARE ASKING TO GO A FEW STEPS FORWARD.

DO YOU HAVE THE PERFECT ANSWER THAT --TO THAT, WALI, FOR WHAT HE ASKED?

>> THEY FOUND WAYS TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO SEIZE THOSE ASSETS BASED ON WELL STANDING INTERNATIONAL LAW.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AS I MENTIONED, PASSED A RESOLUTION THAT WAS STATED THAT RUSSIA VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW AND UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY.

BASED ON THAT, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPLY COUNTERMEASURES TO RUSSIA AND THOSE COUNTERMEASURES CAN INCLUDE SEIZING RUSSIAN ASSETS TO USE FOR THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

THE NATION OF THE WAR, WHERE WE ARE TODAY, IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHERE WE WERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, WHEN WE HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO SUPPORT UKRAINE'S DEFENSE AND THEIR ECONOMY.

TODAY, IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY OF THE WORKOUT EUROPE HAS TO DO MORE.

IN ORDER FOR EUROPE TO DO MORE, THEY SHOULD ONLY CALL ON THEIR PEOPLE TO SACRIFICE IN TERMS OF FINANCIALLY PROVIDING FOR UKRAINE, BUT THEY SHOULD USE THESE RUSSIAN ASSETS THROUGHOUT THE WAR AND WHEN WE FROZE THE ASSETS, WE PUT IN PLACE THE OLD PRICE CAP.

THERE ARE COMP LOCATED LEGAL AND ECONOMIC ISSUES WE HAD TO WORK THROUGH IN THE THING I'M MOST CONFIDENT ABOUT IS THAT EUROPE HAS THE ABILITY WHEN THEY HAVE THE WILL, TO BE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH THOSE DECISIONS TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT UKRAINE.

THE GREATEST ECONOMIC RISK TO UKRAINE TODAY IS NOT USING THESE ASSETS.

IT IS RUSSIA WINNING UKRAINE AND BEING IN A POSITION TO DESTABILIZE EUROPE.

>> DAVID, HOW DO YOU EXPECT VLADIMIR PUTIN TO RESPOND IF THE EU FOLLOWS YOUR ADVICE AND SEIZES THOSE FROZEN ASSETS?

>> MY VIEW IS THAT SEIZING THESE ASSETS COULD AFFECT RUSSIA'S CALCULUS IN SUCH A MANNER THAT IT WOULD MAKE IT MORE RATHER THAN LESS LIKELY FOR THEM TO ACHIEVE THIS.

PRESIDENT PUTIN BELIEVES THAT TIME IS ON HIS SIDE IN THIS WERE.

THE LONGER IT GOES ON, THE BETTER HIS POSITION WILL BECOME BECAUSE U.S. AID IS DRYING UP.

THEY ARE BENEFITING FROM SUPPORT FROM CHINA AND KOREA AND IRAN.

IN ORDER TO AFFECT HIS PERCEPTION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE WAR, EUROPE CAN SEE IS THESE ASSETS WHICH WOULD PROVIDE YEARS WORTH OF SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND IN SO DOING, FORCE THE RUSSIANS, FORCE THE KREMLIN TO REASSESS WHETHER TIME IS ON THEIR SIDE OR IF IT WOULD BETTER SERVE THEIR INTEREST TO COME TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE IN A REAL WAY INTO ACTUALLY MOVE FORWARD WITH THE UNCONDITIONAL CEASE-FIRE THAT THE UKRAINIANS AND THE WHITE HOUSE ARE PURSUING.

>> RUSSIA HAS DONE THE OPPOSITE OF THAT AS YOU KNOW.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY HAS FOLLOWED THROUGH ON THE SUGGESTIONS AND REQUESTS AND DEMANDS MADE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP, IN TERMS OF IMPLEMENT A CEASE-FIRE.

THAT HAS NOT BEEN FOLLOWED BY PRESIDENT PUTIN.

HE DIDN'T SHOW UP TO TURKEY WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP SUGGESTED A MEETING BETWEEN THE LEADERS.

IN FACT, WE SEE THE LARGEST AERIAL ASSAULT ON UKRAINE SINCE THE WAR BEGAN JUST OVER THE WEEKEND.

900 DRONES --DRONE ATTACKS OVER A THREE DAY PERIOD OF TIME.

I'M WONDERING HOW YOU INTERPRET, DAVID, THE LATEST BACK-AND-FORTH AND THE PUBLIC RHETORIC THAT'S BECOMING INCREASINGLY HOSTILE BETWEEN -- WELL, I GUESS DIRECTED ONE DIRECTION AND THAT'S FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP AGAINST VLADIMIR PUTIN.

HE SAID, I'VE ALWAYS HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM BUT SOMETHING'S HAPPENED TO HIM.

HE'S GOING ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.

THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS BEING A BIT EMOTIONAL, TO PARAPHRASE THE COMMENTS RESPONSE.

JUST NOW, MONTHS AGO, PRESIDENT TRUMP ISSUED A STATEMENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

WENT --WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN DOESN'T REALIZE IS THAT IF IT WEREN'T FOR ME, LOTS OF BAD THINGS WOULD'VE ALREADY HAPPENED TO RUSSIA.

AND I MEAN, REALLY BAD.

HE IS PLAYING WITH FIRE.

DAVID, HAVE AT IT.

HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THOSE WORDS FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> SO, FROM HIS WORDS, THE WAY I ANSWER BUT THE LAST FOUR MONTHS IS THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S ATTEMPT TO END THIS WAR THROUGH CEASE-FIRE HAVE OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKED.

THEY HAVE GOTTEN UKRAINE TO AGREE.

RUSSIA HAS REBUFFED.

PRESIDENT PUTIN IS STALLING.

PEACE TALKS, HE SAID, HE BLEW OFF ATTENDING THOSE TALKS IN TURKEY.

SO THERE IS A POTENTIAL INFECTION POINT HERE, WHICH IS, CAN THE NEW ADMINISTRATION VISIT FROM BASICALLY REDUCING UKRAINE'S LEVERAGE BY NOT PROVIDING ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE, MAKING UNILATERAL CONCESSIONS TO RUSSIA AND SOWING DISCORD WITH EUROPE -- THAT HAS BEEN THEIR APPROACH TO THIS POINT.

CAN THERE BE A PIVOT TOWARDS ACTUALLY APPLYING PRESSURE ON PUTIN IN ORDER TO DRAW HIM INTO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE THROUGH ADJUSTING HIS CALCULUS, AS I SAID, AROUND THE BENEFITS AND RELATIVE COST OF CONTINUING THIS WAR.

WE HAVE SEEN REPORTS IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL IT IS RARE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS CONSIDERING ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA.

THAT WOULD BE A GOOD FIRST STEP.

IT'S ALSO NECESSARY TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL ARMS AND WEAPONS TO UKRAINE TO HELP WITH THEIR DEFENSE.

AND IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WERE TO DO THAT IN CONJUNCTION AND CORONATION WITH THE EUROPEANS TAPPING INTO THE SOVEREIGN ASSETS TO PROVIDE THAT SUSTAINABLE SOURCE OF SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE OVERTIME, THAT IS AN APPROACH THAT HAS A MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCEEDING IN GETTING THIS WORK TO AN ACCEPTABLE END OTHER THAN THE APPROACH THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN TO DATE.

>> WALI, IN THE FINAL MOMENTS WE HAVE HERE, FROM A REALISTIC STANDPOINT --I REMEMBER EARLY ON IN THIS WAR IN TERMS OF WHO WOULD BLINK FIRST IN TERMS OF STEPPING UP SUPPORT, PRESIDENT BIDEN ULTIMATELY HAD TO SAY, FINE.

WE CAN USE U.S.-MADE TANKS INSIDE OF UKRAINE, BEFORE MORE OF YOUR FOLLOWED SUIT.

REALISTICALLY, WE HAVE BEEN SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP THREATENED TO DO SO, TO INCREASE SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA AND SECONDARY YOU FORESEE A SCENARIO WHERE EUROPE ALONE WOULD SEIZE THESE ASSETS?

$300 BILLION WORTH OF SOVEREIGN WEALTH?

IF THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T AT LEAST INCREASE SANCTIONS FIRST?

>> I THINK IT'S A BURDEN TO REMEMBER THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

LOOK AT WHAT CHANCELLOR MERZ ANNOUNCED TODAY.

THEY RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT RUSSIA IS DOING IS NOT ONLY A THREAT TO UKRAINE, BUT ALSO A THREAT TO EUROPE.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE WILLING TO TAKE ACTIONS THEY HAVEN'T CONTEMPLATED IN THE PAST, INCLUDING TAKING A LOOK AT THE $300 BILLION OF RUSSIAN SOVEREIGN ASSETS TO HELP SUPPORT UKRAINE AND BY SUPPORTING UKRAINE, EUROPE IS SUPPORTING EUROPE AND MAKING SURE THAT RUSSIA LEARNS THE RIGHT LESSON, THAT THEY CAN'T VIOLATE THE SOVEREIGNTY OF ANY COUNTRY AND GET AWAY WITH IT.

ULTIMATELY, IT'S NOT ONLY PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO IS WATCHING AT THE MOMENT, BUT MORE THAN 80 MEMBERS OF OUR UNITED STATES SENATE HAS SIGNED ON AS ELATION THAT WOULD INCREASE ACTIONS ON RUSSIA SO THAT WE ARE IN A POSITION WHERE THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE AND OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS WILL TAKE ACTION TO HOLD RUSSIA ACCOUNTABLE AND TO ENSURE THAT UKRAINE HAS THE RESOURCES IT NEEDS TO DEFEND ITSELF AND SUPPORT ITS ECONOMY.

>> WALI, I WAS HOPING TO TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT TARIFFS.

DAVID, I WAS HOPING TO TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT THE GUTTING OF THE NFC.

YOU WILL HAVE TO RETURN SOON.

WE HAVE A LOT TO GET THROUGH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

>> NOW TO THE RISE OF WREXHAM F.C.. HOLLYWOOD STARS RYAN REYNOLDS AND ROB McELHENNEY DECIDED TO BUY A STRUGGLING FOOTBALL TEAM IN A SMALL TOWN IN NORTH WALES.

IT WAS THEIR MISSION TO MAKE THE 160-YEAR-OLD CLUB FLOURISH AGAIN.

AND IT HAS BEEN CLIMBING UP THE LEAGUE RANKINGS EVER SINCE.

YOU CAN WATCH THEIR SUCCESS BEHIND THE SCENES IN THE DOCUSERIES, WELCOME TO WREXHAM.

WITH MORE, HUMPHREY KER AND ARTHUR OKONKWO JOIN HARI >> BIANNA, THANK YOU.

HUMPHREY KER AS WELL AS EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF THE SHOW WELCOME TO WREXHAM, AND ARTHUR OKONKWO, THE STARTING GOALKEEPER FOR THE ACTUAL TEAM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND FOR OUR FANS, FAIR WARNING.

WE MIGHT DISCUSS SPOILERS, SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THE TEAM, ALONG WITH THE SHOW, BE WARNED.

SO, HUMPHREY, THIS IS A STORY ABOUT A FOOTBALL CLUB IN THE MIDDLE OF WALES, BUT ALSO A TOWN AND SO MUCH MORE.

YOU HAVE BEEN THERE WITH ROB -- ROB McELHENNEY AND RYAN REYNOLDS, THESE TWO BIG HOLLYWOOD STARS AFTER THEY TOOK OVER THE TEAM.

YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FROM BEGINNING.

HOW DID THIS COME TOGETHER?

DID THEY SAY, WE KNOW THE SKY THAT IS KIND OF THING WAS.

MAYBE HE WILL WANT TO WORK ON THIS?

>> I MEAN, BASICALLY, YES.

COULD TRAVEL INTERNATIONALLY DURING LOCKDOWN.

THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUALIFICATIONS.

I WORKED FOR ROB ON HIS TV SHOW MANY QUEST AND KIND OF GOT TEASED BY HIM A LOT FOR BEING A FOOTBALL FAN.

HE WAS VERY AMERICAN ABOUT IT AND SAID, COME ON.

THERE IS NO POINT.

HE WAS A BIG MAC IN FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL FAN.

HE WANTED MORE ACTION, I THINK, BUT I WON HIM OVER SLOWLY BUT SURELY.

AND IT ALL STARTED IN 2020.

I MADE HIM WATCH A DOCUMENTARY WHICH EXPLAINS VERY BRILLIANTLY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FANS AND FOOTBALL CLUBS IN THE UK AND HOW MUCH JOY WE TAKE FROM THE FOOTBALL TEAMS AND HOW MUCH PAIN WE SUFFER BECAUSE OF THEM.

ALL THOSE THINGS.

AND IN TYPICAL ROB FASHION, HE WAS LIKE, WE SHOULD DO THIS.

WE SHOULD BUY A SOCCER TEAM AND TURNED INTO A DOCUMENTARY.

IT WAS A TEAM THAT WAS ON THE DECLINE AT THAT STAGE.

HE SAID, WE SHOULD DO ONE ON A CLUB --LET'S SEE IF WE CAN TAKE ON ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.

AND THEY ARE SO GOOD.

>> HOW DID YOU FIND WREXHAM AND SAY THIS IS GOING TO BE AN OPPORTUNITY?

THE FIRST THING YOU WATCH IS THAT THE TIME WAS RESISTANT TO THESE HOLLYWOOD OUTSIDERS COMING IN AND THINKING THEY KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO.

>> SURE.

WELL, WREXHAM HAS A HISTORY.

IT WAS A CLUB THAT HISTORICALLY HAD CLAIMS AS BEING IN THE SECOND TIER OF ANGUISH FOOTBALL.

THEY PLAYED IN EUROPE AND HAD ALL SORTS OF --THEY WERE THE SECOND PROFESSIONAL CLUB IN THE WORLD.

BUT THEY HIT TOUGH TIMES.

THEY HAD UNSCRUPULOUS OWNERS IN THE PAST WHO REALLY USED THE FOOTBALL CLUB FOR ENRICHING THEMSELVES RATHER THAN BEING STEWARDS OF IT.

AND, YEAH, WHEN WE CAME IN, I THINK PEOPLE WERE LIKE, WHY ON EARTH IS THE BLOKE FROM IT'S ALWAYS SUNNY IN PHILADELPHIA OR THE MAN FROM JUST FRIENDS -- HERE.

ARE THEIR INTENTIONS CORRECT?

FORTUNATELY, I THINK WE WERE ABLE TO ALLAY THOSE CONCERNS EARLY ON BECAUSE IT WAS GREAT.

IT IS VERY EASY TO PRESENT YOURSELF AS A GOOD OWNER IF YOU HAVE THE INTENTIONS OF A GOOD HONOR.

IT IS HARD TO PRETEND TO BE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THE FOOTBALL CLUB AND I THINK ARTHUR CAN ATTEST AS ONE OF OUR CURRENT PLAYERS THAT THEY REALLY CARE AND THEY FOLLOW EVERY GAME, AND THEY HAVE REALLY COTTON THE BUG.

AND THAT'S VERY INFECTIOUS.

THAT IS A THING THAT OUR FANS LOVE ABOUT THEM.

>> SO, ARTHUR, HAVE YOU WATCHED THE FIRST SEASON OF THIS SHOW?

DID YOU FOLLOWED ON -- FOLLOW IT?

ARE YOU A DEADPOOL FAN?

HE WERE FROM ARSENAL.

DID YOU HAVE TO GO, WHERE IS FIVE WHEN YOUR AGENT CALLED ABOUT THIS OPPORTUNITY?

WHEN MY AGENT TOLD ME ABOUT WREXHAM, I HAD TO, TO BE HONEST.

I KNEW A BIT ABOUT THE CLUB BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW WELL THEY WERE DOING.

OBVIOUSLY, THE OWNERS ARE SO WELL-KNOWN.

WHEN THEY'RE CALLING YOU AND YOU ARE LOOKING AT YOUR PHONE AND SPEAKING TO THEM, IT'S STILL SURREAL.

IT'S ALL BEEN INTERESTING AND SLIGHTLY WEIRD.

JOURNEY.

>> OUT TO PLAY A CLIP OF RYAN AND ROB TALKING ABOUT THE IMMEASURABLE GOOD LUCK THEY'VE HAD AND ALSO HOW IT HAS BEEN SUCH A ROLLER COASTER JOURNEY FOR THEM.

>> WE ARE SO FORTUNATE THAT WE KEEP GETTING REALLY, REALLY LUCKY.

YES.

WE HAVE INCREDIBLE FOUNDATION OF PEOPLE THAT KEEP PUTTING US LUCKY, BUT WE ARE GETTING LUCKY.

>> THE ONE THING WE DID DO THAT I THINK WE PLANNED FOR AND HOPED FOR WAS THAT SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY.

THE FEELING IN WREXHAM AND THE CLUB, THE HIGH TIDE RAISING.

>> IT FEELS OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS LIKE IT'S BEEN THIS ROLLER COASTER OF MAGIC.

>> HUMPHREY, KIND OF TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CONNECTION AND THE IMPACT THAT THIS CLUB HAS HAD ON THIS TOWN BEFORE THE DOCUSERIES GOT THERE, AND FROM AFTER ROB AND BRIAN AND THE REVAMPING OF WREXHAM TODAY.

>> YEAH, WELL, WREXHAM A.F.C., THE FOOTBALL CLUB HAS REALLY BEEN THE BEATING HEART OF THE TOWN.

YOU KNOW, AS VARIOUS INDUSTRIES WENT AWAY, AND THE COAL MINING INDUSTRY WENT AWAY, THE BREWING INDUSTRY WENT AWAY, THEY WERE MAKING STEEL AT WREXHAM --THE ONE THING THAT KEPT EVERYONE TOGETHER WAS THE FOOTBALL CLUB.

THE FORTUNES OF THE FOOTBALL CLUB DECLINED OVER THE TICKETS.

THEY HAD 15 YEARS IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE, WHICH, FOR THE PEOPLE OF WREXHAM, IS A SOURCE OF GREAT SHAME.

THEY FELT LIKE THIS THING THAT THEY LOVED FELL INTO THE DOLDRUMS OF FOOTBALL.

WHEN WE CAME ON --ALONG AND INJECTED, YES, FINANCE, BUT PROBABLY HOPE IN A WAY, INTO THIS INSTITUTION AND STARTED TO GET THEM TO COME ALONG BACK INTEREST AND RECLAIM SOMETHING THEY HAD LOST IN THEMSELVES, AND THEN, YEAH.

WE DID GET VERY LUCKY IN HIRING PHIL PARKINSON, OUR MANAGER WHO DID THIS A STERNER JOB OF ASSEMBLING THIS GROUP OF PLAYERS OVER THE COAST OF A FEW YEARS, WHO COMPLETELY REIGNITED THE PEOPLE OF WREXHAM'S LOVE FOR THE FOOTBALL CLUB AND THAT BROUGHT BACK HOPE AND ASPIRATIONS AND EXCITEMENT.

AND WE SAW THIS ISSUE TRANSFORMATION, REALLY.

MANY PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY GO AWAY ON BUSINESS, THEY WOULD GO TO LONDON, AND IT WILL SAY, I'M FROM NEAR CHESTER.

AND NOW THEY SAY THEY ARE FROM WREXHAM.

WE SEE YOUNG PEOPLE USE TO MOVE AWAY TO MANCHESTER AND LIVERPOOL.

AND THEY WANT TO STAY IN WREXHAM.

THEY WANT TO BE PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN THEMSELVES AND WE ARE SO EXCITED TO BE A SMALL PART OF THAT.

>> ARTHUR, I HEARD RUMORS, AND CONFIRMED THEM OR WHATEVER -- IN THIS PROCESS, I AM ASSUMING YOU HAD OPPORTUNITIES FROM OTHER PLACES WHO WATCHED YOU ON THE TV SHOW.

WATCH YOUR PERFORMANCES ON THE FIELD, AND PROBABLY OFFERED YOU MORE MONEY.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO STAY WITH WREXHAM?

>> YEAH.

THERE'S A LOT OF RUMORS AND TRANSFER POTENTIALS WHEN YOU ARE IN THAT SITUATION AND YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO TAKE A MOMENT AND THINK ABOUT YOU WANT TO DO.

WHAT IS THE BEST COURSE FOR YOUR CAREER?

I KNEW --I ALWAYS KNEW THAT WREXHAM WAS THE RIGHT MOVE FOR ME.

THE FANS WANTED ME BACK.

THE PLAYERS WANTED ME BACK.

THEY COULDN'T TELL ME ANYMORE.

AND I KNEW IT WAS A PLACE WHERE IT WOULD BE A GOOD FOUNDATION FOR ME TO COME BACK AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I'M YOUNG.

I NEED A PLACE WHERE I CAN PLAY AND SOMEWHERE WHERE I CAN ENJOY MY FOOTBALL.

AND WREXHAM WAS THAT FOR ME.

YOU KNOW.

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING IS AS YOU PEOPLE WATCH THE SHOW, YOU CONNECT WITH THE PLAYERS.

AS HE GO UP INTO THE COMPETITIVE LEVELS, WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT AS FAMILIAL AS IT MIGHT BE, AS YOU SEE ROB AND RYAN'S INSTAGRAM, HE SEE THE PALLING AROUND WITH SOME OF ALSO HANGING OUT WITH PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT BE CONTINUING ON WITH THE CLUB BECAUSE THERE IS A PRETTY HARD BUSINESS SIDE TO IT THAT IF YOU WANT TO BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE, YOU HAVE TO BE BUYING OR GETTING PLAYERS WITH GREATER SKILL LEVELS TO PLAY AND PERFORM.

>> THE COOLEST IRONY OF THIS WHOLE THING IS THE SUCCESS THAT THESE PLAYERS DELIVER FOR THE CLUB CREATES A HUGE CHALLENGE FOR THEM IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO CONTINUE WITH THE CLUB AS IT GOES UP THROUGH THE LEVELS.

HE IS A FANTASTIC PLAYER.

HE IS SOMEONE THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK HAS A VERY LONG FUTURE WITH THE CLUB IF HE SO CHOOSES.

IF WE CAN HOLD ONTO THEM.

IF HE DOESN'T GET SIGNED BY REAL MADRID OR ONE OF THOSE SCUMBAGS.

YOU KNOW, WE SET GOODBYE TO STEPHEN FLETCHER AND MARK HOWARD, WHO HAVE BEEN CHOMP, AS YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT HAS BEEN WITH US FROM THE NATIONAL LEAGUE.

ARE NOT ONLY FANTASTIC PLAYERS, BUT THEY ARE GREAT PEOPLE.

I MEAN THEY ARE A HUGE BASIS OF THE SUCCESS THAT WE'VE ENJOYED AS A CLUB.

IT HAS BEEN THE QUALITY OF NOT ONLY THE PLAYER BUT THE PERSON THAT THE MANAGER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BRING IN, AND IT'S BRUTAL.

IT'S REALLY, REALLY TOUGH.

IT'S SUCH A TIGHTKNIT GROUP.

IT'S SUCH AN INCREDIBLE DRESSING ROOM AS WE CALL IT -- LOCKER ROOM AS HE THINK OF IT IN THE STATES --AND THAT CHARACTER IS REALLY THE MOST VALUABLE THING WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO UNEARTH, THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT PLAYERS, GREAT VALUE IN TERMS OF TRANSFER FEES AND WAGES AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF, BUT ACTUALLY, THE THING THAT HAS DELIVERED THREE SUCCESSIVE PROMOTIONS --THAT STARTS WITH THE PEOPLE.

THE CHARACTERS, THE PERSONALITIES, AND, SO YEAH, SAYING GOODBYE TO THOSE PEOPLE IS VERY HARD.

IT'S VERY HARD.

>> SO, ARTHUR, YOU KNOW YOU'VE ALSO BEEN IN THE DRESSING ROOMS OF SUPER CLUBS WHERE THERE IS ALMOST A SEPARATE LAMBORGHINI PARKING LOT FOR THESE GUYS WHO ARE MAKING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, RIGHT?

VERSES, YOU KNOW, THE TINY RAMP THAT WE SEE ON THE SHOW WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING IN AND EVERYBODY'S ASKING FOR AUTOGRAPHS AND REALLY, LIKE, THIS CLOSE TO YOU.

AND THERE'S NO HUGE SECURITY FEELINGS.

>> YEAH.

I'VE SEEN BOTH SIDES.

WHEN I WAS AT ARSENAL, THE TEAM GOT ESCORTED EVERYWHERE YOU GO.

YOU HAVE SECURITY EVERYWHERE.

I THINK THAT'S A SPECIAL THING GOING ON AT WREXHAM AT THE MOMENT.

YOU COME IN BEFORE THE GAME AND YOU SIGN EVERYONE'S STUFF AND YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT AND IT'S REALLY SPECIAL TO BE ABLE TO ENGAGE WITH FANS BEFORE THE GAME AND THAT SOMETHING YOU DON'T REALLY GET OBVIOUSLY, THE HIGHER UP THE LEVELS.

AND LIKE I SAID, I HOPE IT STAYS LIKE THAT AND BEING ABLE TO ENGAGE WITH FANS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

IT'S ALWAYS A SPECIAL FEELING.

>> THIS MAN'S ON FIRE.

WHAT A BRILLIANT STRETCH.

HE SLOW TO GET UP.

>> EARLY INTO THE GAME, THEY COME TO SPREAD AND SMOTHER.

MY HAND GETS IN BETWEEN HIM AND MAX.

IT HAPPENED SO QUICKLY.

GOING INTO HALFTIME, I WAS THINKING MAYBE HAVE JUST DONE A SPRAIN OR JUST A KNOCK --NOT.

THEY WERE ABLE TO WRAP UP MY HAND.

I DIDN'T WANT TO COME OFF THE PITCH.

>> THERE'S A TIME, ALSO, I SHOULD SAY THAT YOU BUSTED YOUR JOB, AND YOU HAD A PHANTOM OF THE OPERA SORT OF MASK GOING ON FOR A FEW GAMES.

I'M WONDERING WHAT IT IS ABOUT BEING AN ATHLETE THAT MAKES YOU PLAY THROUGH --I MEAN, YOU ARE PLAYING WITH AN ACTUAL BROKEN WRIST FOR TWO MINUTES MUST BE EXCRUCIATING.

I JUST BATHED IN ADRENALINE?

WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD THAT KEEPS YOU ON THE FIELD?

>> YEAH.

I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF IT IS ADRENALINE.

I THINK A LOT OF IT IS JUST WANTING TO STAY ON THE PITCH, AND WANTING TO WIN THE GAME.

WANTING TO FINISH THE GAME.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR A GOALKEEPER, THE HARDEST THING IS COMING ONTO THE PITCH --SO I KNOW, IF I COME OFF, CAL BURTON OR CHOMP HAS TO COME IN.

I KNOW HOW THAT FEELS.

PART OF ME ALSO THINKS ABOUT THAT, AND IT'S NOT EASY COMING INTO THE GAME COLD, BUT YEAH, IT IS VERY PAINFUL.

BUT I'VE DONE IT --I'VE DONE IT LAST YEAR.

BROKEN JAW.

THIS YEAR, BROKEN WRIST.

YOU GET USED TO IT.

JUST PAIN.

>> SO, GOING INTO THIS NEXT LEAGUE, YOU KNOW, ARE YOU -- DO YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT DIET?

ARE YOU EATING MORE BROCCOLI?

DOING?

BECAUSE YOU'VE WATCHED ENOUGH OF THESE GAMES.

YOU'VE PLAYED AGAINST SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BEFORE.

YOU KNOW THE CALIBER OF PLAYER AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE ALREADY.

SO HOW DO YOU PREPARE FOR THAT INCREASED INTENSITY?

>> YEAH.

IT'S HARD TO PREPARE FOR A LEAGUE I'VE NEVER PLAYED IN BEFORE, BUT, THE MOST I CAN DO IS OBVIOUSLY INCREASE MY TRAINING THIS SUMMER.

TO MAKE SURE I'M PHYSICALLY READY.

THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

AND THEN, YEAH.

YOU KNOW, THE MANAGER WILL HAVE PLANS IN PLACE ON HOW WE CAN ACHIEVE BIG THINGS THIS SEASON AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO AND TAKING THOSE THINGS ON BOARD AND THE BIGGEST THING IS ADAPTATION, BEING ABLE TO ADAPT FROM WEEK ONE TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP BECAUSE IT'S A HUGE SHIFT, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WITH THE MANAGER, THE PLAYERS HE BRINGS IN, THE PLAYERS WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE GOING INTO NEXT SEASON.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SUMMER, I'M GOING TO JUMP OUT OF A LOT OF CUPBOARDS TO SURPRISE HIM.

FACE EVERY NOW AND THEN AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> OKAY.

YOU'VE GOT A TRICK.

YEAH.

>> ISLANDER, HUMPHREY, HOW DOES THE ORGANIZATION ADAPT?

BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE BIG FISH, THE TYPE OF MONEY THAT THE TEAMS IN THIS LEAK WILL SPEND ON THEIR PLAYERS IS ENORMOUS.

A LOT OF THEM HAVE PLAYED IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE AND ARE JUST KIND OF HOLDING THEIR OWN UNTIL THEY GET BACK UP.

EVEN SOME OF THE FIRST TEAMS THAT YOU PLAYED HAVE MULTIBILLIONAIRE BACKING.

I'M NOT SAYING MONEY AUTOMATICALLY EQUALS GREATER QUALITY.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU COMPETE?

>> IT WILL BE A HUGE CHALLENGE.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

AS YOU SAY, THERE'S A LOT OF TEMPORARILY EMBARRASSED PREMIER LEAGUE TEAMS.

THERE ARE TEAMS THAT HAVE HISTORICALLY SPENT MOST OF THEIR LIFE IN TOP-FLIGHT.

THERE'S A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS LITTERED THROUGHOUT THE LEAK.

SO, YES, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE A CHALLENGE, BUT WE, YOU KNOW, I WAS LAST SEASON VERY KIND OF --I THINK THE DRUM FOR QUITE A LONG TIME, FOR 12th PLACE.

12th PLACE IS FINE.

IF WE GET 12 PLACE, WE SHOULD ALL BE VERY PROUD OF OURSELVES.

FORTUNATELY, PHIL AND ARTHUR AND THE REST OF THE LADS WERE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT NONSENSE.

THIS YEAR, I'M SAYING, WE ARE GOING TO GO IN AND GIVE IT OUR BEST AND SHOOT ARE SHOT AND THAT KIND OF THING.

SEE WHERE WE WIND UP AT THE END OF THE SEASON.

BUT, YEAH.

I HAVE FAITH.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT AFTER WATCHING THREE PROMOTIONS IN A ROW NOT HAVE FAITH IN THESE GUYS.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOU?

WHAT --HOW DO YOU BRACE YOUR BRAIN TO IT?

I MEAN, ARE YOU A TAKE IT ONE GAME AT A TIME KIND OF GUY?

>> YOU KNOW, I SAID THE SAME THING LAST YEAR.

FOR ME, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO HOPE FOR 10th OR 12.

I'M ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THE MENTALITY THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO FOR PROMOTION AND IF WE WHAT IT IS, BUT, YEAH.

I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD BE POSITIVE AND WE ARE GOING TO TRY AND GO FOR IT AGAIN.

OBVIOUSLY, THIS YEAR, IT'S MUCH MORE CHALLENGING, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN MY MIND TO THINK ABOUT FINISHING IN THE MIDDLE WHEN THEY'RE SO MUCH HIGHER YOU CAN AIM FOR.

>> ARTHUR OKONKWO, HEAD GOALKEEPER, AND HUMPHREY KER, HAD DIRECTOR OF WREXHAM F.C., THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> WELCOME TO WREXHAM AIRS THURSDAY ON FX AND IS STREAMING THE NEXT DAY ON HULU IN THE US AND DISNEY PLUS IN UK.

THAT'S IT FOR US.

SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

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JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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