As we head into the second year of Evan's detainment, the potential for his release is met with a mix of hope and frustration.

As Brenda reported, Russian President Vladimir Putin implied during a recent interview he may be open to a potential prisoner swap, but declined to give a timeframe, even as U.S. officials say they're continuously working to secure his freedom.

One man who spent four years dealing with the Russian president is Michael McFaul, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Russia under the Obama administration, and he joins me now.

Ambassador McFaul, thank you for joining me.

Based off of your experience.

What can you tell us about what's happening behind closed doors in the negotiations to free Evan?

I most certainly have heard periodic lately from people in the Biden administration about negotiations, about potential swaps.

There was negotiations over Mr. Alexei Navalny before he was murdered, allegedly also talking about swaps with Germans.

And at one point, from what I've been told, that included Americans as well.

And then I was told that it didn't include Americans, which is all to say that I don't know the details.

I do know that this is a top priority for the Biden administration, and they continue to look for ways to free it.

After Navalny's death.

I was curious, as I think many of us were, how that might factor in into future negotiations.

I, like you, followed reports in New York Times, Wall Street Journal, elsewhere that there were possibly two Americans, maybe Garcia vision, and Paul Whalen, who's also been detained.

How does that factor in here and could that possibly be a setback?

And I just don't know, because we're you're we're asking these questions.

The whole world is to get into Putin's mind.

And it's impossible to know how he thinks about these things.

In some ways, I see this potentially tragically, obviously, the murder of Alexei Navalny.

He was a colleague, a friend of mine.

And but maybe that might just give some impetus for the Russian officials for Putin themselves to think, do we really want to have other people die in jail like Alexei Navalny did?

I don't see how in any way, shape or form it would be in Putin's personal interest, let alone Russia's national interest for that to happen to Americans like Evan.

So maybe that gives just some slight more impetus to take negotiations about a swap more seriously.

Well, and that's interesting that you say that, Ambassador, because Putin is coming off of an election, a rubber stamped election, and is really tightening his grip on the country.

What impetus, if any, does he have to negotiate with foreign leaders like Biden, like others in the West, in Germany, when he is now the longest serving leader in Russia since Stalin?

Well, generally speaking, he's not in a negotiating state of mind.

That is absolutely correct.

And when it comes to Ukraine, for instance, I see no evidence whatsoever that he is willing to begin serious negotiations about ending his barbaric invasion of Ukraine.

That said, Putin has this peculiar loyalty streak to think people that he thinks are patriots and in particular the killer, the assassin in Germany.

Mr. Cross, Of course, that was allegedly I want to point out, I'm just reporting what others have written, but allegedly, he was the person Putin was willing to trade Navalny for because he has said stated publicly that this assassin who went to Germany and killed, you know, a Chechen in exile.

He has stated on the record that he thinks that he did a patriotic duty to do that.

So in that sense, maybe that opens up a window and some kind of complicated trade.

Maybe there are others held in the and American prisons that but that would be the only way.

But I want to be clear.

I'm I'm drawing on straws here, right.

I'm pulling on threads of hope.

Realistically, we should not overestimate Putin's interest in negotiating for anything.

He's very comfortable being the villain that he is.

And, you know, while others on the outside might just see this cruel and humane, I most certainly do with respect to all Americans being held unjustly, including Paul Wieland, Evan and Mark Vogel, too.

I don't think Putin thinks of that that way.

And so I just think we need to be sober about who we're dealing with here.

And Vladimir Putin.

You essentially answered what I think all of us are wondering, which is should we be prepared for this to be a very protracted long haul, as we have seen with other cases?

Well, of course, I hope there's a way out of this.

I hope there is a deal done.

And I know some people criticize swaps.

I don't I think it's worth the trade, and especially given the circumstances for forever.

This is incredibly wrongful and an unjust wrongful imprisonment.

I think it's worth the trade.

And there's no this notion that somehow it encourages future arrests.

I don't there's no evidence to support that.

And to that, I would just say Americans should get out of Russia.

Nobody should be in Russia today.

But I fear it will be a long, drawn out process because I just don't think Mr. Putin is in an a mood to please anybody in the United States of America right now.

That is the tragic reality today.

Former Ambassador Michael McFaul, thank you so very much for your insight.

Thanks for having me.