>> HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBC WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", WEEKLY DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

WE WILL GET TO THE WOMEN'S VOTE LATER IN THE SHOW, THE FIRST WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COVID-19 ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THE PANDEMIC IS INCREASING THE CHALLENGES MANY AMERICAN WORKING MOTHERS FACE, THREATENING TO REVERSE THE GAINS WOMEN HAVE MADE OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES IN THE WORKPLACE.

A REPORT THIS WEEK FROM McKINSEY AND LEAN AND FOUND ONE IN FOUR WOMEN CONSIDERING DOWNSIZING OR LEAVING THE WORKFORCE.

IN FACT, FOUR TIMES AS MANY WOMEN AS MEN LEFT THE WORKFORCE IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER.

IT ALSO FOUND SENIOR-LEVEL WOMEN, ONE AND A HALF TIMES MORE LIKELY THAN SENIOR MEN, TO CONSIDER DOWNSHIFTING OR DROPPING OUT DUE TO INCREASED DUTIES AT HOME.

THREE OUT OF FOUR WOMEN SAY THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM BURNOUT.

JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS COVID'S IMPACT ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE CONGRESSWOMAN ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, TARA SETMAYER OF THE LINCOLN PROJECT,AND A CNN COMMENTATOR ANN STONE, REPUBLICAN COMMENTATOR AND STRATEGIST, AND ERIN MATSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST.

WELCOME, EVERYONE.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> VERY GOOD.

>> TERRIFIC.

WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH COVID?

IS IT SETTING WOMEN BACK IN TERMS OF ADVANCEMENT IN THE WORKPLACE?

>> I'M AFRAID SO, BONNIE.

THIS PANDEMIC IS HAVING A DISASTROUS EFFECT ON WOMEN AND ON THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

1/4 OF WOMEN ARE FALLING OUT OF THE WORKFORCE.

THEIR DUTIES AT HOME AND FAIR EMPLOYMENT, THE KINDS OF EMPLOYMENT THEY DO IS HAVING A DISPROPORTIONATELY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON WOMEN.

THEIR DUTIES IN THE HOUSEHOLD, PARTICULARLY SINCE WE HAVE NOT IRONED OUT THE DISPARITIES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, IS HAVING AN EXTRAORDINARY EFFECT WITH CHILDREN LIKE MY OWN GRANDCHILDREN, HAVING TO STAY AT HOME, TO BE EDUCATED.

SO WHO DO YOU THINK IS TAKING CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?

AND WE MAY BE BACK 1/4 OF A CENTURY.

>> THE STUDY SHOWED THAT FOUR TIMES AS MANY WOMEN ARE OUT OF THE WORKFORCE DUE TO COVID AS MEN, AND THAT TREND KEPT UP IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, LABOR DATA.

BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN WHO HAVE JOBS LIKE WAITRESSES AND WORK AT NAIL SALONS OR HAIR SALONS AND WHO WORK AS TRUCK DISPATCHERS OR, YOU KNOW, NOT TALKING MAINLY ABOUT SENIOR EXECUTIVE WOMEN.

>> BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT -- WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM TOO.

ACCORDING TO THE STATISTICS, ALMOST 2 PERCENT OF THEM ARE THINKING OF DOWNSIZING.

I WAS AMAZED AT ABOUT.

YOU COULD UNDERSTAND THE LOWER LEVEL WOMEN, BUT THE FACT THAT IT'S HAVING AN EFFECT ACROSS THE FEMALE LABOR FORCE FORCES A REAL CONCERN.

>> BONNIE, NOT ONLY ARE WOMEN WHO ARE IN THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY HIT BECAUSE THE INSURANCE INDUSTRIES ARE SHUT DOWN, BUT THEY ALSO ARE -- IF THEIR KIDS ARE IN SCHOOL, THEY CANNOT AFFORD CHILDCARE.

SO THEY HAVE GOT TO STAY HOME.

UNTIL THE KIDS ARE BACK IN SCHOOL, THEY WILL HAVE TO DO THIS.

IN TERMS OF THE UPPER LEVEL -- SOME ARE CHOOSING.

SOME ARE MAKING THE CHOICE THAT THEY LIKE WORKING FROM HOME.

I THINK YOU WILL SEE THEM TRANSITION, STARTING THEIR OWN FIRMS AND STARTING OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE MORE HOME-BASED AND YOU WILL SEE BUSINESSES RECRUIT THEM WITH THE CAVEAT AND WITH THE BENEFIT OF BEING ABLE TO TELEWORK.

>> THAT'S NOT THE SENSE OF DOOM THAT I'M HEARING ON THE PLAYGROUND AT ALL WITH OTHER MOTHERS OF YOUNG CHILDREN WERE YOU JUST SEE I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY GROUP TEXTS I'VE BEEN ON, MOTHERS CRYING AT THEIR WITS END.

I CAN SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS A MOTHER OF A SECOND GRADER WHOSE IN ALL VIRTUAL LEARNING AND MANAGING THAT IN THE ONLINE CONNECTIONS AND THE DIFFICULTY LEARNING FOR THAT AGE GROUP, AS WELL AS DOING MY OWN WORK, JUST A COUPLE FEET AWAY WHICH I'VE BEEN DOING SINCE MARCH 13, 2020.

IT'S TRULY 1/3 SHIFT, NOT A SECOND SHIFT, 1/3 SHIFT.

I WOULD ESTIMATE IT ADDS AN ADDITIONAL 12 TO 20 HOURS PER WEEK TOO LATE IN ORDER TO -- >> BUT, AARON, YOUR HUSBAND IS NOT HELPING YOU?

YOU'RE NOT SPLITTING THIS WITH HIM?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE ARE 100 PERCENT A TEAM.

THIS IS A FUNNEN FEMINIST MARRIAGE, WE WANT AND FEMINIST CIRCLES.

WE NEED THE HOT CONVERSATION THAT WOMEN ARE PICKING UP SLACK EVEN IN FEMINIST CIRCLES.

IT'S A SIMPLE REASON: WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRUE DEPRESSION.

MEN ARE PAID MORE THAN WOMEN.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS, TARA, > DIRECT BYPRODUCT OF THE PRESIDENT'S FAILURE TO GET COVID UNDER CONTROL.

WE ARE NINE MONTHS INTO THIS THING AND WE SHOULD NOT BE AT THE POINT THAT WE ARE AT.

GIVEN THE TYPES OF JOBS, AS ELEANOR WAS REFERRING TO EARLIER, THAT WOMEN HOLD, YES, THOSE INDUSTRIES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED.

I MEAN, THE LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE FOR WOMEN AS OF THE 32 YEAR LOW.

YES, WE CAN MULTITASK, BUT WE CANNOT BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE.

AND HAVING THE CHOICE BETWEEN KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL, CHILDCARE, THOSE JOBS, THERE'S BEEN NO ECONOMIC RELIEF SINCE THE SUMMER WITH CONGRESS, NEW MOVEMENT THERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFICULT WHEN EVEN -- EVEN IF YOU HAVE A HUSBAND AT HOME TO HELP YOU OUT, IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO THESE THINGS BECAUSE EVEN THEIR JOBS, NOT EVERYONE HAS A WHITE-COLLAR JOB WHERE THEY CAN SPLIT THE DUTIES AT HOME WITH CHILDREN.

SO, YEAH, IT'S A REAL SHAME THAT THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE CANNOT DENY THE FACT THAT WE ARE AT RECORD HIGHS AS FAR AS INFECTIONS ARE CONCERNED AND DEATHS ARE RETURNING, 43 -- [LOST AUDIO] -- COVID INFECTIONS IN THIS IMPACTS WOMEN TOO.

>> SOME SAY THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR COMPANIES TO FOOT THE BILL, SO TO SPEAK, AND BRING -- MAKE ADDITIONAL EFFORTS TO RECRUIT MORE WOMEN.

COMPANIES ARE FOLDING, JOBS ARE GOING OUT OF EXISTENCE RIGHT NOW.

HOW REALISTIC A SOLUTION IS THAT, ERIN?

>> THIS IS ON INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES, WHICH OF COURSE BOSSES SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR BEING ACCOMMODATING AND THERE SHOULD BE GOOD WORKFORCE POLICIES, BUT THIS IS WHAT TARA SAID.

IT'S A FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP AT THE TOP.

IT IS BECAUSE I LIVE IN ARLINGTON COUNTY, VIRGINIA.

IT'S BECAUSE OF SUPER SPREADER EVENTS AT THE WHITE HOUSE THAT OUR SCHOOLS ARE NOT OPENING IN OUR COUNTY.

WHAT WE REALLY NEED ARE THINGS LIKE MASK MANDATES, WE NEED TO CLOSE DOWN BARS.

WHEN WE DO NOT CLOSE DOWN BARS BUT ARE CHOOSING TO KEEP SCHOOLS CLOSED.

I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THE FOCUS WHERE IT BELONGS.

THIS IS A PUBLIC LEADERSHIP VACUUM.

WHAT WE NEED IS LEADERSHIP FROM THE TOP TO TURN AROUND THIS PANDEMIC SO THAT SCHOOLS CAN REOPEN.

>> THAT'S WHAT WE ALREADY SEEN.

WE ARE ALREADY SEEING A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AT THE TOP.

YOU SEE THE NEW PRESIDENT-ELECT CALLING FOR MASK WEARING BUT NOT SAY IT MUST HAPPEN, INSTEAD OF BY EXAMPLE NOT WEARING A MASK.

JUST SEEING THE PRESIDENT WEAR A MASK, CALLING FOR IT FROM THE TOP WILL BEGIN TO BRING DOWN THIS COVID RIGHT AT THE MOMENT WHEN COVID IS DESTINED TO GO UP ACCORDING TO ALL OF THE EXPERT!

IN FACT, WE SEE IT RIGHT NOW AS I SPEAK.

[CROSS TALK] >> WELCOME THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DO WHEN IT TAKES OVER IN JANUARY BESIDES ENCOURAGE COMPANIES TO REHIRE WOMEN MORE QUICKLY THAN MEN?

>> THEY CAN BUT LOOK FORWARD LEGISLATION AND CAMINO, START WITH ECONOMIC RELIEF, FIRST OF ALL.

I THINK THE TRAGEDY THAT THE -- THAT CONGRESS HAS ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AT THIS POINT, NOT HELPING PEOPLE.

I MEAN, I'M A SMALL CITY CONSERVATIVE AND DON'T USUALLY LIKE THE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS, BUT THIS IS EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCE HERE.

THAT WAS EXACERBATED BY A PRESIDENT WHO KNEW WOULD BE DEVASTATING AND CHOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING AND TO IGNORE SCIENCE AND HEALTH DATA.NE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL DO, AND I'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO DO THIS, IS LISTEN TO THE HEALTHCARE POLICY EXPERTS, LISTEN TO THE SCIENTISTS.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION COULD BEGIN PROPOSING LEGISLATION, HAVING IN FRONT OF CONGRESS AND FORCE THEM TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO ALLEVIATE THIS ECONOMIC DISASTER.

>> WELL, FORCE THEM, MAYBE THE HOUSE -- >> TO HAVE A DISCUSSION.

>> OBVIOUSLY IT WILL BE AND DEMOCRATIC CONTROL, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SENATE?

IF THEY ARE LUCKY AND WIN THE TWO GEORGIA SEATS, WHICH IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT THEY WILL WIN BOTH WERE REALLY PROBABLY EITHER AT THIS POINT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT, BONNIE?

WITH NO PRESIDENT TWEETING THEM OR VERY THREATENING THESE SENATORS, THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS NEED HELP AND THEY KNOW IT.

THE REASON THEY HAVE NOT MOVE FORWARD IS BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID OF DONALD TRUMP.

HE WILL BE OUT OF OFFICE.

SO I THINK THOSE SENATORS WILL BE A LOT MORE LIKELY TO STRIKE A COMPROMISE TO HELP THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

>> TRUMP IS THE ONE PUSHING FOR -- THE REPUBLICANS -- >> NO, HE WAS NOT.

>> YES.

REPUBLICAN SENATORS DID NOT WANT THAT BIG A PACKAGE.

THEY WANTED THE SPENDING RAINED AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO BAIL OUT NEW YORK CITY AND LOS ANGELES.

>> THEY WERE PLAYING POLITICS WITH BLUE VERSUS RED STATES INSTEAD OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHICH WAS IMPORTANT AND DONALD TRUMP WANTING TO PASS, THEN IT WOULD'VE PASSED.>> JUST A FEW OF THE STATES WERE BANKRUPT AND HE DID NOT CONTROL THE SENATE AND MITCH McCONNELL -- [CROSS TALK] >> PLEASE TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE SENATE IS LIKELY TO DO MOVING FORWARD.

LET'S NOT REHASH THE PAST NEGOTIATIONS.

MITCH McCONNELL WILL STILL BE, WE ASSUME, MAJORITY LEADER.

HE JUST DOES NOT WANT TO WORK WITH DEMOCRATS, PERIOD.

>> WHAT MACCONNELL WAS DOING WAS HOLDING ONTO HIS SEATS THAT WERE IN DANGER.

NOW THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WON, I EXPECT HIM TO BE MORE OPEN TO SENSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

FOR EXAMPLE, HE'S ALREADY SAID THAT HE THINKS STATE AND LOCAL WILL NEED SOME FUNDS, PARTICULARLY NOW THAT ALL FORECASTS ARE THAT THE VIRUS WILL EXPLODE.

>> OKAY.

WANT TO MOVE ONTO THE NEXT TOPIC WHICH IS THE WOMEN'S VOTE.

AS ANALYSTS EXAMINE EXIT POLLS, WE ARE NOW LEARNING OF THE 2020 ELECTION DID NOT PRODUCE THE LARGEST GENDER GAP OF ANY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS EARLIER POLLING HAD SUGGESTED VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN'S LEAD AMONG WOMEN ACTUALLY APPEARED TO BE SIMILAR TO 2016 WHEN HILLARY CLINTON WON WOMEN BY 13 POINTS.

TARA SETMAYER, AS HEAD OF THE -- AS A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE LINCOLN PROJECT, YOU WATCH THIS VERY CLOSELY, HOW, REPUBLICAN WOMEN DID NOT VOTE DEMOCRAT THIS TIME?

IT TURNS OUT THAT JOE BIDEN DID NOT GET MORE WOMEN'S VOTES, AND THAT MEANS -- BECAUSE HE GOT THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN'S -- OF COLOR'S VOTES, BUT HE DID NOT GET WHITE WOMEN'S VOTES AND DID BETTER THAN HILLARY CLINTON DID FOUR YEARS EARLIER.

>> WELL, I'M NOT COMPLETELY CONVINCED THAT'S THE CASE, BECAUSE EXIT POLLING THIS TIME AROUND IS SPOTTY AT BEST.

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THE MILLIONS OF EARLY VOTES THAT WERE CAST THAT WOULD NOT BE COUNTED IN EXIT POLLING, AND ALL INDICATIONS ARE THAT WERE JOE BIDEN DID THE BEST WITH WOMEN WAS IN SUBURBAN AREAS OUTSIDE OF DALLAS, CHARLOTTE, PHILADELPHIA, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, MILWAUKEE, PLACES LIKE THAT, DETROIT SUBURB!

SO I'M NOT QUITE CONVINCED YET THAT DONALD TRUMP'S NUMBERS ARE AS HIGH AS THEY ARE WHEN IT COMES TO THE EXIT POLLING WITH WOMEN.

HOWEVER -- >> THAT WE ALL AGREE, AND THE DATA FOUND THAT MORE DEMOCRATS, YOU'RE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT THEY CANNOT EXIT POLL EARLY VOTERS, BUT IT'S MORE LIKELY CLEARLY THE PEOPLE VOTING DEMOCRATIC VOTE EARLY OR MAIL-IN BALLOTS, SO YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE EXIT POLLS WOULD OVERSAMPLE REPUBLICAN WOMEN, WHICH IS JUST THE PEOPLE THAT BIDEN NEEDED TO DRAW TO DO BETTER WITH WHITE WOMEN OVERALL.

>> BUT NOT THE REPUBLICAN WOMEN THAT DECIDED THAT THEY WERE NOT VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP.HOSE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE VOTED EARLY, BECAUSE THEY WERE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE COVID RESTRICTIONS.

THEY WERE GALVANIZED ENOUGH TO GET THEIR VOTE IN EARLY OR GO EARLY VOTE LIKE MYSELF AS A CONSERVATIVE THAT VOTED FOR BIDEN AND WENT IN EARLY VOTING.

I DID NOT VOTE ON ELECTION DAY.

WE WILL SEE.

LET'S SAY FOR THE COURSE OF THE CONVERSATION THAT THERE WAS AN INCREASED COURT, OVER 50 PERCENT AGAIN FOR WHITE WOMEN, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTING, I HAVE TO ADMIT, GIVEN THE WAY THIS PRESIDENT HAS BEHAVED, BUT IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT THE LEVEL OF NEGATIVE PARTISANSHIP, THE LEVEL OF ECONOMIC ANXIETY AND RACE PLAYS A LARGE ROLE IN VOTING BEHAVIOR.

>> WHAT CAN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DO, IF ANYTHING, TO GET MORE WHITE WOMEN, PARTICULARLY WHITE SUBURBAN, WHITE MARRIED WOMEN TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC?

IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN DO WITHOUT LOSING OTHER IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE BASE?

>> IT LOOKS LIKE WHITE WOMEN KIND OF STAYED THERE COURSE.

THE COURSE HAS BEEN THAT FOR, I DON'T KNOW, 25 YEARS, WOMEN GENERALLY HAVE TENDED TO VOTE BY SMALL MARGIN MORE DEMOCRATIC THAN MEN, AND THAT WAS THE CASE THIS YEAR.

BUT PEOPLE VOTE NOT ONLY WOMEN'S ISSUES, THEY VOTE ON THE SAME ISSUES THAT THEIR HUSBANDS AND BOYFRIENDS VOTE ON.

SO IT'S REALLY AMAZING TO ME IS THAT YOU SEE SO MUCH SIMILARITY ON THE CORE ISSUES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, ALTHOUGH, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT ISSUES LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE, WOMEN WOULD TEND TO BE MORE SENSITIVE TO CLIMATE CHANGE THAN MEN.

WHY DOESN'T THAT SHOW UP IN THE POLLS?

IT'S A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT FOR ME.

[CROSS TALK] >> WE NEED TO DIG DEEPER TO FIND OUT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.

>> I CAN REMEMBER DURING REAGAN'S CAMPAIGN, MEDIA SHOWED NOT A HUGE DETTINGER GRAB.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT, THEY SEE REAGAN AS BEING SAFER WITH SECURITY.

WITH TRUMP, SUPPORT OF POLICE I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO BRING A LOT OF WOMEN BACK.

THEY SAW HIM AS BEING SOMEBODY STANDING UP FOR WHAT THEY SAW AS WELL IN ORDER.

THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES IN TERMS OF JOBS FOR THE KIDS.

THEY STILL PERCEIVED THAT TRUMP WOULD BE BETTER AT CREATING JOBS GOING FORWARD.

THEY SAW JOBS BEING CREATED, SAW WHAT HE STOOD FOR AND THEY SEE THAT FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR KIDS ESPECIALLY.

SO THAT'S WHAT BROUGHT BACK.

BUT FOR 40 YEARS, WE'VE BEEN -- THE GENDER GAP IS GOING TO BE THE GENDER GAP.

IT'S ALMOST ALWAYS DISAPPEARS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAST QUESTION, GETTING CLOSE TO IT, ANYWAY: TARA, DO YOU THINK JOE BIDEN WILL BE ABLE TO BRING THE COUNTRY BACK TOGETHER?

>> I THINK THERE IF THERE IS ANYONE THAT CAN DO IT, IT WILL BE JOE BIDEN.

IS IN A UNIQUE POSITION TO DO THIS, GIVEN HIS EXPERIENCE.

REALLY HUMBLE SOMEONE AND REVEALS THE HEART WHEN THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH THEIR OWN PERSONAL TRAGEDY THE WAY JOE BIDEN HAS THROUGH HIS WHOLE LIFE AND THAT RESILIENCY IS EXHIBITED THROUGHOUT ALL WILL SERVE HIM VERY WELL AS THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE THAT WAS EXPERIENCED, COMPETENT, AND COMPASSIONATE ENOUGH TO BE THE LEADER OF AMERICA AND OF THE FREE WORLD, RESTORE RESPECTABILITY AND HONOR AND DECENCY BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND BE THAT SHINING CITY ON THE HILL AGAIN.

WE'VE HEARD OUR OVERSEAS ALLIES SAY AMERICA IS BACK AND BREATHE A SIGH OF RELIEF.

I THINK IT'S FOR GOOD REASON.

IF ANYONE CAN DO IT, IT WILL BE JOE BIDEN, BUT IT WILL BE A VERY DIFFICULT TASK CONSIDERING 71 MILLION PEOPLE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF DONALD TRUMP, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT EXAMINATION I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AS THE SOUL OF OUR NATION AND PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK THEMSELVES WHY IT WAS THEY WANTED ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF SOCIOPATHY.

>> DO YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS WILL REFORM AFTER TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE, OR IS HE GOING TO KEEP ON PARADING AROUND AND INCITING, YOU KNOW, THE SKINHEADS AND THE, I WOULD SAY THE OLD CONFEDERATES, IF YOU WILL, WHO ARE STILL IN OUR POPULATION?

IS HE GOING TO DO THAT AND MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO MOVE BACK, IF YOU WOULD, SAY, FOR THE LEFT, THOUGH NOT VERY FAR LEFT AS THEY WERE BEFORE HE CAME ALONG?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE ISSUE, IT'S ON REPUBLICANS TO DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE THE PARTY THAT OPENLY EMBRACES WHITE SUPREMACISTS' VIEWS AND TOLERATE NAZIS AND DOES ALL OF THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS THAT JUST HAPPEN AS THEY ARE SUPPORTING SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO BE THE DICTATOR OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT IS ON THEM.

I WILL BE HONEST.

ARE NOT OPTIMISTIC, BASED ON A LONG HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SUPPORTING POLICIES THAT REALLY DO HURT PEOPLE OF COLOR.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY DO HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE IF THEY WENT TO BREAK FROM THAT HORRIBLE POINT THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

I SURE HOPE THEY DO SO.

>> JUST HEARD FROM ERIN AND TARA ARE EXACTLY WHERE THIS COUNTRY WILL NOT BE UNITED.

WHEN YOU SEE REPORTS OF DEMOCRATS PUTTING TOGETHER LISTS OF TRUMP PEOPLE THAT WILL BE PUNISHED, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN UNITY AND HEALING, THEY BELIEVE IN TOTAL DOMINATION.

IT IF PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SUCH A DICTATOR, HE WOULD HAVE TAKEN DICTATORIAL POWERS BECAUSE COVID COULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO HIM.

HE DID NOT.

HE SAVED THE FEDERALIST MODEL AND GOT ATTACKED FOR IT.

[CROSS TALK] >> HE TRIED IN EVERY WAY -- THEY ARE SO -- THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING THAT HE WAS NOT ABLE TO DO IT.

THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE, BONNIE, IS THAT, LIKE IT OR NOT, JOE BIDEN IS A MODERATE.

IF ANYBODY HAS ANY CHANCE, AND IT IS A VERY SLIGHT CHANCE, VERY POLARIZED COUNTRY OF GETTING PEOPLE TOGETHER, IT IS A MODERATE DEMOCRAT.

MANY DEMOCRATS DID NOT WANT A MODERATE DEMOCRAT.

THEY OF COURSE EMBRACED HIM.

WE ELECTED THE RIGHT DEMOCRAT FOR THIS POLARIZED TIME IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> BUT, ANNE, LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A CLOSE ALLY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HAVE BEEN -- I'VE WORKED WITH HIM FOR MANY YEARS BEFORE HE GOT INTO OFFICE, IS HE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SOME WOULD SAY ACT OUT AND TRY TO ENRAGE THE RIGHT AND GET PEOPLE UPSET THE COUNTRY DIVIDED AFTER HE LEAVES OFFICE, IF HE LEAVES OFFICE ON JANUARY 21, OR IF HE HAS TO BE DRAGGED OUT BY FEDERAL MARSHALL'S?

>> SEE, BONNIE, AGAIN, THAT IS THE KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT DOES NOT UNITE THE COUNTRY.

IT REALLY PIECES OF THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HIM.

YOU GUYS HAVE TO STOP IT IF YOU WANT TO BE UNIFIED.

I HAVE TO SAY THIS: IF THE ELECTION IS CERTIFIED IN BIDEN'S FAVOR, HE WILL LEAVE.

WILL HE GO QUIETLY, HE WILL GO QUIETLY IN THE NIGHT.

BUT HE WILL PROBABLY BE THE PREEMINENT FUNDRAISER FOR THE PARTY AND HE WILL STILL BE A VERY POPULAR FIGURE WITHIN THE PARTY.

RONNA McDANIEL EVENTS OF THE.

SHE DOES NOT EXPECT NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME IS IF IT'S BIDEN OR TRUMP THAT WILL DISASSOCIATE FROM TRUMP.

HE DIVERSIFIED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE ARE NOW THE WORKINGMAN'S PARTY.

HE DIVERSIFIED THE VOTE.

YOU GUYS ARE NOW THE PARTY OF THE RICH AND THE PRIVILEGE AND THE LEFT COAST ELITES AND WRITE COAST ELITES, THE COAST ELITES, I GUESS.

WE ARE NOW THE PARTY OF THE WORKERS WHO BROUGHT MORE BLACKS AND HISPANICS, OBVIOUSLY NOT MAJORITY, BUT HE TRIPLED HIS BLACK SUPPORT, HE DOUBLED HIS HISPANIC SUPPORT, AND THAT WILL CONTINUE.

HE'S VERY POPULAR WITH A LOT OF THOSE COMMUNITIES.

>> AN "I'M SORRY" -- [CROSS TALK] >> QUICKLY, SOMEONE WHO RECENTLY LEFT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AFTER 27 YEARS OF WORKING FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEDICATING MY ADULT POLITICAL LIFE BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE HE I WAS SO DISGUSTED WITH HOW REPUBLICANS HAVE ADVOCATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE AND HAVE SAT BACK AND ALLOWED THIS PRESIDENT TO BECOME, NOW FORMER PRESIDENT, TO COMPLETELY DESTROY ALL OF THE BASIC TRADITIONS ON FOR REPUBLICANS, OF NOT ACCEPTING THE ELECTION RESULTS, YOU KNOW, OF INDECENCY, OF LYING, OF COZYING UP TO DICTATORS, AND HIS LEVEL OF INSULTS AGAINST EVERYONE, EVERY ETHNIC GROUP, AND YOU'RE GOING TO SIT THERE AND LECTURE US ABOUT BEING A AND DECENT AND NOT UNIFIED BECAUSE YOU CALL IT STRAIGHT, I THINK THAT'S LAUGHABLE AND IT'S PART OF THE HYPOCRISY HERE AND PART OF WHAT THE PROBLEM, WHY WE ARE SO TRIBAL HERE.

>> IN CONGRESS AND THE '80s, WHEN I COVERED THE HOUSE, TIP O'NEILL AND BOB MICHAEL, REPUBLICAN OF ILLINOIS, HE WAS THE RIGHT MINORITY LEADER, WOULD ARGUE LIKE CRAZY ON THE FLOOR.

AFTER THE VOTE, THEY WOULD GO OUT AND SLAP EACH OTHER ON THE BACK AND GO PLAY A FEW ROUNDS OF GOLF AT THE CONGRESSIONAL COUNTRY CLUB TOGETHER.

WILL WE EVER SEE THAT AGAIN?

>> BONNIE, I BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE.

IT WILL REQUIRE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE ADULTS.

AS WE'VE BEEN GETTING ELECTRON UNITY FROM SOMEONE WHO I HONESTLY BELIEVE IS TRYING TO THROW BOMBS RIGHT NOW, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE TARA WHO IS A DEDICATED CONSERVATIVE IN THE WAY WE'VE BEEN AGREEING REPEATEDLY ON THE SHOW AS WE ARE BEING TOLD WE WILL NOT UNIFIED.

HERE WE ARE UNIFIED.

AT THIS POINT, SHE SAID SHE WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE, WITH EXTRA MONEY AFTER THE SHOW, OKAY?

[CROSS TALK] >> I DO BELIEVE THERE IS HOPE.

>> SHE DOES NOT REPRESENT THE MAINSTAY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.ORRY.

>> BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE QANON CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND SAINT CONSERVATIVES LIKE MYSELF, WHICH IS WHY LEFT THE PARTY.

>> WELL, WOULD YOU GO BACK IF THE TRUMP -- IF THE TRUMP INFLUENCE WERE OUTED OR THROWN OUT OF THE PARTY?

>> I MEAN, I WOULD RECONSIDER, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.

TRUMP IS ALMOST FULLY ENSCONCED, NOT REPUDIATED.

UNTIL IT'S COMPLETELY ROOTED OUT, I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING PART OF A PARTY THAT IS THIS ILLIBERAL AGAINST DEMOCRATIC NORMS, INSTITUTIONS, AND IDEALS AND I THINK THAT SEEMS TO BE AUTHORITARIAN LIGHT IS THE WAY TO GO.

I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING PART OF IT.

>> ANNE, LAST WORD.

>> AGAIN, THE LANGUAGE WE HEARD TODAY, THE LANGUAGE WE ARE HEARING OUT FROM ELECTED DEMOCRATS AND DEMOCRAT STRATEGISTS IS NOT ONE OF HEALING AND HOPE.

YOU HEAR BYTEDANCE A ONE THING -- >> TRUMP EITHER.

>> -- INSTRUCTION.

UNTIL EVERYONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE, NO CHANCE OF HEALING.

I DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING WITH BIDEN.

PEOPLE THINK HE'S DISHONEST AND THE PRESS COVERED A LOT OF HIS DISHONESTY.

WE WILL SEE.

THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE, I GUESS.

>> THANKS TO ALL OF YOU.

HAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

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