(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to the show.

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll hear music from The Matt Arthur Contraption.

But first joining me down now is Keely Ihry, the Director of Student Services with Child Care Aware, North Dakota.

Keely, thanks for joining us today.

- Thanks for having me.

- As we get started, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your background.

- Sure.

So like you said, I'm the director of student services for the Southeast Education Cooperative and SEEC is what we call it, but we're a regional education association.

And back in October of 2021, we wrote for and received the Child Care Aware of North Dakota contract from the Department of Health and Human Services.

So we've been operating that since 2021.

A little bit about my background is I started in public health and worked a lot on policy system and environmental changes.

And then when I came over to SEEC, did a lot around health and healthy communities around physical activity, nutrition, and then also have now dabbled into some Medicaid work, school-based Medicaid, and then also obviously the Child Care Aware project.

- Well, with that said, then tell us what is Child Care Aware of North Dakota?

- So Child Care Aware of North Dakota is the resource and referral agency for the state of North Dakota.

So we operate statewide and we provide support to new providers looking to start child care all the way through those providers that have been in child care for all of their life.

It provided technical assistance and coaching.

We have some health and safety support, so we have a nurse and a health and wellness specialist on staff that are able to answer questions if somebody has a breakout of hand, foot, and mouth all the way up into like getting them set up so that they have safe sleep practices when they're starting their child care.

We also have startup coordinators that are located across the state that work alongside new providers just in that process of starting, whether it's a family child care or a center child care.

And then we also have building quality specialists that really work on some of the kindergarten readiness pieces and looking at increasing literacy and math and social emotional learning skills for those kids that are in early childhood all the way up into their kindergarten area.

- Now of course it says Child Care Aware of North Dakota.

Does every state have an organization like this?

- Yeah, so every state has a child care resource and referral contract.

Bigger states have multiple regions where they oversee it, but here at North Dakota we operate statewide.

- Do you have a mission statement and can you tell us?

You've told us a little bit about it, but the mission of child care where, and then the role in the state, yeah.

- So really our mission statement is to provide support to those providers in making sure that they're able to provide healthy and safe environments.

And we also want to be an information hub for providers so whether that's through training, technical assistance, or coaching throughout their lifespan of their programs.

- How is it staffed?

Full-time staff volunteers?

- Yep, we have full-time staff and so we have, like I said before, we have our startup coordinators who are located across the state.

Some have dual roles.

So one of our startup coordinators is also a building quality coach and helps with some of our early learning literacy initiatives.

And then we also have two health and safety specialists, and then we have a resource and referral person that is able to help with connecting families to child care and then making sure that providers are updating their profile on our online database.

- Okay.

Are there any volunteers with the organization at all?

- Not really.

Yeah, we are pretty much all fully staffed as a organization.

- Is there a way you can describe the current state of child care in North Dakota?

- Yep, so I think we all know child care is an issue across the state and it's a an issue across the nation.

And so really when we're looking at kind of where and which we want to put our, you know, our advocacy eggs in the basket.

We always are really looking at that availability, affordability and quality as kind of our pillars of making sure that there's adequate child care across the state, but not just having a thousand different child cares pop up.

We also want those to be quality child care options for families.

And so they're not having to choose between a subpar place to send their child to a really high end place to send their child.

And the affordability piece really always continues to be an issue for families across the state.

- Is North Dakota comparable to other states in what's going on in child care?

- Yeah, so we were at a conference this last week actually, and it was the statewide or the national conference where all the statewide resource and referral agencies come together.

And we were able to spend some time advocating on the Hill and talking to our Congress people here from North Dakota and really the talking points for all states, whether or not they were talking from North Dakota or Arizona or you know, South Dakota are all the same.

And so we're just really wanting to advocate for quality child care across the nation.

- You know, how important is it to have organizations like yours, especially in states with rural communities?

- Yep, so like, yes, we are very rural states and so I think that kind of sets us a little bit different than some of the other states that were at the symposium.

And the fact of the matter is when we look at wanting to like really keep our rural communities alive, child care has to be there.

If we don't have child care in those communities, we can't keep young families in those communities and we can't incentivize young families to move to those communities also to, you know, find the workforce.

So child care really is also a workforce issue itself.

- Yeah, has there been a decline or increase in licensed child care providers in North Dakota?

- So we worked really hard the past few years on that startup piece of things.

And some of the data that we were just given at this national conference from the Child Care Aware America umbrella was that we were seeing an increase in some of the child care facilities across the state so looking at more of those bigger centers.

And then there was a small decrease around family child care.

So, you know, a few things I think go into effect when looking at some of those numbers.

We've had a number of state funded like grow grants through the state where it incentivizes new child cares to start and some of that funding has really been focused on some of the bigger groups and facilities versus the family child care.

We also see that a lot of times people get into family child care while their kids are young and at home.

And so that once their kids go off, you know, into school and they're at school all day, sometimes those family providers step back from doing child care any longer in their homes and maybe go back into the workforce or find something else to do.

- Yeah, does does this sort of correlate with demand and need though, over the years?

- So the demand and the need continue to grow and I don't know that we're meeting that demand, but one in three children still need to find that care.

We also see a huge need in that infant care.

And so that's one area in which too we've been really trying to work on and trying to incentivize as a state to try to get more infant spots open.

And so, you know, I think it's something that we continue to work towards.

We have not filled that gap at this point in time.

- You know, what are the state standards for licensed providers?

- So there's lots of standards, there's lots of licensing rules and regulations, and so that's all through the state, the Department of Health and Human Services.

And so there's licensing specialists across the state that are there to help answer some of those questions.

We've also been able to start kind of a new initiative starting last October where we have a licensing toolkit that's available for new providers.

And so we're able to really walk them through the process of, you know, becoming licensed and then all the way through getting their license in the hopes that we're really going to then make sure that new providers are taking those licensing rules and regulations and really taking them in and so that we're going to see less correction orders or less compliance plans down the road when those licensing standards aren't being met.

- Okay, and what's your role as director of student services?

What does that mean?

- So I get to oversee the Child Care Aware staff and our initiatives that we have within our initiative.

And then also I have a few other projects underneath my umbrella.

So we also house the North Dakota Afterschool Network.

Really that is looking at not just, whereas Child Care Aware sometimes focuses on that birth to five, this one is really looking at making sure that we have adequate care for those in that five to 12 age range.

So really between the two programs, we're able to impact a child's life between birth to 12.

And then also some school-based Medicaid and so making sure that we're really maximizing and making some of those ways in which to access those school Medicaid dollars efficiently.

- What does the term child care crisis mean?

- That's a great question.

So I think a few things.

We have the availability piece of things, and so just being able to find available child care across the state, whether or not it's here in Fargo or if it's someplace in the more rural areas as well.

We also have affordability which is a big piece right now especially where families are just not able to afford child care.

If you look at just kind of just some statistical numbers across the state, if you have two kids in child care, an infant and a 4-year-old, let's say, you're paying more than a mortgage or rent and then also it ends up being more than college tuition and child care.

And so a lot of our families aren't able to afford that.

And it turns into then a workforce issue where a parent will have to decide whether or not they wanna stay in the workplace and send their child to child care, but maybe not be able to afford it or step out of the workplace and have to stay home with their child.

And they're missing some of those early childhood experiences because of that.

- Does North Dakota, or does the US for that matter, have a child care crisis?

- Yes, we aren't any different than anywhere else and I think those are all things that everyone's struggling with in trying to identify some of those barriers.

And I think the different parts of it is how, like what innovative things can we be doing statewide to help, you know, alleviate some of those issues that make it become a crisis.

- You talked about some of the obstacles already a little bit but can you expand on that a little bit to say, you know, what are the real obstacles outside to access child care?

Because I know that, well, affordability is one thing.

If you have three small children, it's tough but just finding a place for those infants.

- Yep.

- [John] So what are all the obstacles then?

- Yeah, so like if you're thinking of it more as like the parent side of things.

You know, A, you have to be able to find child care in your location, you know, that you're trying to find the child care in.

And so that's not always easy and sometimes you're put on long wait lists and you're hoping that you'll get a spot for your infant and sometimes you really have to plan backwards as to, you know, you might be newly pregnant, you want us to get your name on a list because you wanna make sure that you do have a spot come the time that you're planning to go back to work.

And so we try to maintain kind of the statewide database where it shows kind of some of those available programs that are out there.

And so trying to take that onus off of families as much as possible so that they're not calling around to a thousand different daycares, you know, trying to figure out where they can maybe get their children in.

And a lot of times a place that they maybe have their 3-year-old won't have an infant opening.

And so sometimes families are then having to drive multiple locations to drop their kids off as well.

From a provider standpoint, you know, there's obstacles for them too because they're also having a lot of different licenses, you know, all those rules and regulations that they're also trying to follow.

We also, you know, run into... A lot of times, providers get into the business because they wanna take care of kids.

And so that's what they're really good at is that taking care of kids and being around kids and those interactions, whereas maybe they're not as savvy on the business side of things.

And child care is a business and so you also have to keep yourself afloat and make sure that there's enough funding for you to keep your workforce on staff.

And a lot of times too, they have a lot of turnover and so then they're continually having to train new staff and get staff up to speed on all of the things that might be going on at their sites.

- Okay, and understanding in December of 2025, North Dakota Department of Health and Human Services reported a reduction in some of its child care subsidies.

You know, can you comment on that, what effects it will have, the cuts will have on child care programs and families and providers?

- Yeah, so yes, the demand was pretty great for needing that child care assistance or CCAP.

And so in December, there were people then put on the wait list if they weren't able to meet the demand of how many families were needing to access that child care assistance.

And so we still have families, I think it's around a thousand families who right now are on that wait list.

And we are seeing and hearing a lot of stories from both the provider and the family of kind of that impact of that wait list.

And so families are having to choose whether or not they can afford to keep their child in child care without that subsidy or if they will have to step outside of the workforce and stay home.

We did talk to one family and you know, they're trying to juggle, trying to keep both parents working and bringing grandma in to watch one day and then the dad's taking off some time, the mom's taking off some time.

And I think what's sad too is the little kids are like, when do I get to go back to school?

When do I get to see my friends?

And so I think it's impacting not just the parents, but that they have to also see their kids and their kids wanting to go back too.

- Are other cuts expected on the state or federal level that you might know about?

- So right now, like when we were out in DC this past week, it seems as though the child care development block grant, which is the funding and which then gets distributed down to states, is held to be stable funding.

Obviously, we would love to see that funding grow just because of all of the costs that are also increasing everywhere else.

And so it doesn't really count for all of the additional needs that we're seeing, but also thankful that we'll at least have that stable funding.

- Who's most affected by the cuts and/or potential cuts that that may come?

Is it the families or the providers or both?

- I would say both because usually if it has to do with the CCAP, you know, those are the families that might be firstly directly impacted.

But it's also impacting those providers because they all might be losing families outside of their care or they're not able to then receive those benefits to help them in their business as well.

And so I would say it really is both when it comes to the impact.

- Yeah, you know, obviously these are recent changes.

We're talking about December '25 when they did some cuts, but going back to what you talked about earlier, are these challenges, you know, recent developments or families and child care providers have these obstacles?

Is it just ongoing or is it?

- They feel ongoing, I will say.

It might just be one more domino in the whole effect of things.

I think, you know, we've had continue issues with that availability and affordability piece and I think like the extra domino this past couple, you know, six months or so since December really has been then that wait list that we've had here in North Dakota for the CCAP, yeah.

- And again, rural state like North Dakota, how does the lack of available child care affect the area and the community as far as businesses or schools, et cetera?

- So I think it really is trying to keep those rural communities alive.

And I think that's one thing that we wanna see continue here in North Dakota.

We don't love to see our communities like dying out because we can't attract new families to them.

And so if there is not available child care or affordable child care in those communities, it's really hard to get nurses and teachers and those type of roles into the community if that's kind of some of the business that they have or the workforce that they're needing to keep their hospitals or clinics or schools alive.

- So with that, what are some important steps towards providing that accessible healthcare especially in those rural communities?

- So I think that, you know, there's always opportunities that are out there and I think that we're always trying to figure out new innovative ways to partner with, like whether it's a healthcare or a school.

And if there's space available, is there ways in which they could bring onsite child care to a nursing home or a school building and then be able to offer it really as a retention tool for their staff as well.

And so we've had a few different, I would say, models of that throughout the state and have been excited.

And I think there too, it's just kind of some of those shared services that then happen as a result.

And so maybe, you know, the building is already paid for and the building's already there, they have a janitor on staff, maybe the food can come from that centralized kitchen.

So just trying to figure out some of the innovative ways to continue to bring child care to some of those communities.

- You know, are are there resources that providers use to help relieve the stress of the child care crisis?

And if they're relying on that, does that really solve the problem?

- So I would say we try to, you know, offer different services, whether that's through professional development.

We also try to offer some more like intensive business training for providers so that then they're able to figure out ways in which to keep their, you know, their business alive and making sure that they're planning for the future as well.

We've had a few different like Shared Services Alliance opportunities as well, so trying to take and think about some of the things that would help alleviate or take things off the shoulders of providers so that then they really can go do what they love to do, which is taking care of those kids.

- Sure.

Are there other solutions that states or communities can look at to help with child care?

- So I think, you know, we continue to think about that workforce piece of it.

Right now, you know, the salary range for a child care provider, it's not really a livable wage.

And so, are there ways in which we can think about, you know, being able to help with that side of things or is there stabilization funding?

Is there things like that that could help providers?

And then also just I think continuing to think about how we're incentivizing new business growth as well and so we've been able to have some state funding as well to help with that startup piece of it, which I do think has helped in the growth of some of our facilities.

- Yeah, does Child Care Aware of North Dakota work with similar groups to assist in finding solutions towards the crisis?

- Yeah, I think, you know, one of the nice things about going to like the National Symposium is hearing from other states as to what might be happening.

I think our Health and Human Services Department is also always listening to kind of their other states and to what they're doing.

And we also, I think, you know, or, you know, child care is a bipartisan issue as well so I think we're also trying to work with national organizations who can help us identify maybe what some of the policy pieces might be that we could explore here in North Dakota to really help with that affordability, availability, and quality of child care.

- Well, kind of going back to our conversation earlier, how long do child care groups expect and providers that is, anticipate this crisis to last?

Is there light at the end of the tunnel or is it just we're always gonna have to deal with this and try to balance it along the way?

- I think we'll have to continue to balance it along the way.

I don't know that there's that light.

I think we're trying to see that light.

The hard part is kind of just the ebbs and flows of the ups and downs of the funding and so just to keep some of those funding streams continuous is also the hard part.

It's like we're able to start a program but then maybe the next session we don't have that funding and so then that program has to be pulled back.

And so I think it's trying to figure out some of the solutions also that don't have a big price tag attached to them.

- Yeah, with that said, we're running out of time, but if people would like to learn more about Child Care Aware in North Dakota or child care providers, where can they go?

- Yeah, we'd love you to visit our website, so ndchild care.org.

And then also we try to keep that as updated but also look for us on Facebook and a lot of our training opportunities and things that we have available are always posted on there.

- Okay.

Well Keely, thank you for joining us today.

- Thank you.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) Matt Arthur is a southern Minnesota blind man who learned to sing by listening to gospel records as a child.

He writes songs that mimic 70s-style folk and country renegade tunes.

The Matt Arthur Contraption includes fellow musicians Bill Patton and Faith Eskola who add their influences of old time rock and roll.

♪ Have to travel ♪ ♪ This highway of life ♪ ♪ I think of all the friends ♪ ♪ That I've known in my time ♪ ♪ Their load is still running ♪ ♪ Others have said goodbye ♪ ♪ And through it all ♪ ♪ Man, it's been quite a life ♪ ♪ It's a real adventure ♪ ♪ Down its twists and winds and roads ♪ ♪ With so many exits ♪ ♪ I don't always know which way to go ♪ ♪ But you know you've been with me ♪ ♪ Every step of the way ♪ ♪ You showed me kindness and mercy ♪ ♪ Even when I up and walked away ♪ ♪ I just want to thank you ♪ ♪ For what you've done for me always ♪ ♪ For being patient with me ♪ ♪ While I do doubt my craziness ♪ ♪ But I should come ♪ ♪ To the end of my time ♪ ♪ And I must look back ♪ ♪ Upon this life of mine ♪ ♪ And if someone should ask me ♪ ♪ Was it really worth it all ♪ ♪ The pain and sorrow ♪ ♪ And the hard times I saw ♪ ♪ Let me tell you, friend ♪ ♪ Yes, it really was ♪ ♪ With all that trouble ♪ ♪ Even the times when I was really off the wall ♪ ♪ All the songs I've sung ♪ ♪ And the ones that I've lost ♪ ♪ Lemme tell you, buddy ♪ ♪ It was really worth it all ♪ - Well, that's all we have on Prairie Pulse this week and as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Funded by The Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.