♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING REPUBLICAN PROPOSALS TO INCREASE PENALTIES FOR CERTAIN PROTEST ACTIVITIES.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, HOWIE FISCHER FROM CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX.

CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HOWIE, START WITH YOU, LOTS OF BILLS.

A FEW BILLS HERE.

FOCUSING ON PEOPLE WHO PROTEST IN NOT NECESSARILY THE RIGHT WAY?

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> THERE'S A RIGHT WAY AND A WRONG WAY, AND A RIGHT WAY IS YOU SAY, YES, OF COURSE, WE LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING MR.

TRUMP, AND EVERY OTHER WAY.

A LOT OF THIS COMES OUT OF WHAT HAPPENS IN MINNEAPOLIS AND OTHER CITIES, SO THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE CRIMINAL STATUTES AND SAYING, WELL, OKAY, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE TRYING TO COERCE THE GOVERNMENT TO DO SOMETHING.

COERCION IS ALSO PERSUASION.

THAT IS THE NATURE OF PROTEST.

BUT THIS WOULD MAKE IT A CRIME TO TRY TO COERCE CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT.

THERE'S ALSO LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS IF YOU'RE TRYING TO SUBVERT THE AMERICAN OR ARIZONA PROCESSES.

WHAT DOES SUBVERSION MEAN?

THE NATURE OF PROTESTS, THE NATURE OF ALL OF THIS STUFF IS TO SAY WE DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU'RE DOING THINGS, SO HAVE YOU SUDDENLY COMMITTED A FELONY?

TED: THIS LEGISLATION INCLUDES SOMETHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.

WE'D BE MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO WARN SOMEONE OF FEDERAL AGENTS COMING TO ARREST YOU.

THERE WOULD BE NEW CIVIL TERRORISM CLASSIFICATION, A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON HERE.

>> A LOT OF BILLS AND PROPOSALS IN THERE.

ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING FEATURES OF SEVERAL OF THE BILLS IS A LOT OF THE STUFF THEY'RE TARGETING IS ALREADY ILLEGAL.

DESTROYING PROPERTY, BLOCKING TRAFFIC, THINGS LIKE THAT.

THIS RATCHETS UP THE PENALTIES, CREATES NEW CLASSIFICATIONS, CIVIL TERRORISM.

IT'S TRYING TO MAKE THESE MORE SEVERE PENALTIES AND MAKE IT EASIER TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE, GIVING LAW ENFORCEMENT, POLICE, A LOT MORE LATITUDE AND WHAT THEY'RE ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR, WHAT THEY'RE CHARGED WITH, THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO THE RIGHT WAY AND THE WRONG WAY, PROTESTERS ARE TO THE REPUBLICANS IN LEGISLATURE, PROTESTING FOR CAUSES THEY DO NOT SUPPORT.

THAT IS KIND OF THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE, AND IN A LOT OF CASES DOING THINGS WELL WITHIN THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

SOMETIMES GOING OUT OF BOUNDS AND BREAKING THE LAW.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT THEY ARE PROTESTING ABOUT.

TED: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FELONY CHARGES HERE.

>> YEAH, TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY TIME, FELONIES, FOR ME THE MOST INTERESTING ONE IS IF YOU'RE WARNING SOMEONE, MAKING A LOUD NOISE, FOR EXAMPLE, TO ALERT PEOPLE TO THE PRESENCE OF I.C.E.

AGENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, STUFF LIKE THAT BEING CONSIDERED OBSTRUCTION, AND THIS TIES INTO OTHER CONVERSATIONS LIKE ANALISE ORTIZ POSTING ABOUT I.C.E.

AGENTS AROUND HER COMMUNITY, AND WHEN PEOPLE DO THAT AND LOOKING OUT FOR ONE ANOTHER IS THAT OBSTRUCTING THE LAWS AND SHOULD THERE BE FELONS FOR THAT, AND SHOULD THEY BE FREE TO COMMUNICATE, FREE SPEECH, ET CETERA.

>> JOHN KAVANAGH SAYS IF YOU HAPPEN TO SEE AN I.C.E.

AGENT AND YOU ARE BLOWING A WHISTLE, THAT'S FINE.

IF YOU ARE INTENTIONAL BLOWING A WHISTLE AND KNOWINGLY NOTIFYING THAT PERSON.

TED: HOW DO YOU THAN?

>> HIS EXAMPLE IS YOU ARE WORKING IN A RESTAURANT AND I.C.E.

IS LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY, YOU RUN IN THE BACK, GET OUT OF HERE.

THE PROBLEM IS WHERE ARE THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?

I HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO BLOW A WHISTLE, TO TAKE A BULL HORN, TO SAY WHATEVER, BUT SOMEHOW, THEY'RE GOING AHEAD AND SAYING, I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO CHILL SPEECH, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S BEHIND THIS.

>> SURE, THERE IS A LOT OF GRAY AREA, MAKING A GENERAL WARNING, BLOW A WHISTLE OR YELL TO ALERT THE FOLKS IN THE BACK, IN THE KITCHEN, DO YOU KNOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE HERE, THAT THEY'RE UNDOCUMENTED?

YOU SUSPECT SOME WHO ARE AND WHO AREN'T, ARE YOU GIVING A SPECIFIC WARNING OR A GENERAL WARNING, JUST IN CASE THIS APPLIES TO YOU, GET OUT OF HERE.

>> I DON'T THINK I'D BE GOING OUT ON A LIMB SAYING THIS WOULD END UP IN THE COURT AND THE JUDGE WOULDN'T BE A HUGE FAN OF IT.

TED: AM I GOING OUT ON A LIMB THIS IS NOT GOING TO GET PAST THE GOVERNOR'S DESK?

>> THERE'S THAT AS WELL.

THERE ARE THINGS IN ARIZONA OF THINGS GOING TO THE BALLOT.

I DON'T THINK THE VOTERS LIKE IT EITHER.

I THINK IT'S NOT THE TEMPERATURE.

TED: LET'S TALK ABOUT GOING TO THE BALLOT, HOWIE.

APPARENTLY, IS A BALLOT A RUSSIAN NOVEL THIS YEAR?

HOLY SMOKES.

HOW MANY THINGS ARE THEY REFERRING?

>> WAR AND PEACE WAS A NICE NOVEL, IF YOU HAVE THE WHOLE SUMMER TO READ IT.

THE PROBLEM BECOMES, AS CAMRYN POINTS OUT.

THE GO TO METHODOLOGY OF LAWMAKERS, WHEN YOU CAN'T GET STUFF TO THE GOVERNOR, WE'LL TAKE IT TO THE PEOPLE.

THERE ARE THINGS PEOPLE WANT.

THERE ARE THINGS SHE IS QUOTE, UNQUOTE OUT OF STEP ON.

WHO GETS TO USE WHAT BATHROOMS IN THE SCHOOLS AND SHOWERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT?

BUT EVERYTHING ELSE I THINK IS THERE TO MAKE A POINT, WHETHER IT'S DOMESTIC TERRORISM, WHETHER IT'S GOING AHEAD AND DECIDING WHO IS GUILTY OF WHICH PARTICULAR CRIMES?

AGAIN, THE IDEA IS WE WANT TO LOAD UP THE BALLOT.

THE PROBLEM THEY COME INTO, AND I WORKED ON A BALLOT MEASURE YEARS AND YEARS AGO IS WHEN THE BALLOT IS LOADED UP, AND PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED, YOU VOTE NO.

YOU START OUT ON THE NO SIDE, YOU START ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE VOTE.

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO FIX THERE?

IT'S RARE LIKE A PROP 139, WHICH IS ABORTION, WHICH CLEARLY BROKE AWAY FROM THE PACK, BUT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT DOES, WHAT ARE YOU SOLVING, THEY VOTE NO.

TED: AND TAKE THEIR TIME VOTING NO BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS TO VOTE NO ON.

IT TAKES TIME IN POLLING PLACES TO GET VOTES TALLIED, WE WOULD RUN INTO THIS.

HOLY SMOKES, JEREMY, A REDO OF ELECTION DENIALISM AND QUESTIONS AND THE WHOLE NINE YARDS?

>> WE MIGHT HAVE A REDO OF A COUPLE YEARS AGO, THE BALLOT WAS SO LONG, IT WAS TWO SEPARATE PIECES OF PAPER.

THE FIRST TIME IN 20 YEARS TO HAVE THAT, AND GOING BACK TO HOWIE'S POINT, PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE NO.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY TOO LONG, DIDN'T READ, AND ANOTHER THING IS THAT I THINK LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP USED TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE DISCRETION WHAT THEY WOULD LET GO THROUGH ON THAT.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE, IF SOMETHING GOES TO THE BALLOT AND THEY WANT IT TO PASS, YOU WANT IT TO BE IN CAMPAIGN.

DOES ANYONE CARE ENOUGH TO DO THIS?

YOU HAVE 10, 15, 20 BALLOT MEASURES, NO ONE IS PUTTING MONEY INTO ALL OF THESE THINGS.

>> THAT'S THE THING.

BATHROOM THING GOES ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE TOUCHSTONES THEY THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.

SPEAKER MONTENEGRO HAS A BILL, WE HAVE VOTER APPROVED LAWS ABOUT DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION PROGRAMS.

THERE'S A LOOPHOLE IN HERE, WE WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE BALLOT.

IS THAT THE THING PEOPLE ARE SAYING WHAT IS GOING ON THAT WE NEED TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION AND AMEND THE STATUTES.

>> CAMRYN, SAY THERE ARE 20 BALLOT MEASURES ON THERE.

NO ONE IS ALL EXCITED ABOUT ALL 20.

>> WE ARE.

TED: OF COURSE, WE ARE.

IF WE GET DIFFERENT PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS, DOES THAT IMPROVE TURNOUT, IN THIS CASE, FOR THE REPUBLICANS?

>> DEPENDS.

I THINK IT GOES DOWN TO THE SIMPLICITY OF THE MEASURES, LIKE WHAT JEREMY IS SAYING, THE MARKETING AND PACKAGING OF IT.

IF IT'S COMPLICATED GROUND WATER POLICY, AND THE GRANDFATHERED IRRIGATION RIGHTS, PEOPLE ARE FALLING ASLEEP, SKIPPING IT, WHATEVER.

IF IT'S SOMETHING LIKE PROTESTERS BAD, SENT TO PRISON.

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT MORE CLEARLY.

IF YOU CAN NAME IT THE STOPPING EVIL PROTESTERS FROM DESTROYING OUR CITIES, PEOPLE TAKE A MORE FAVORABLE VIEW OF IT.

IT'S A LOT ABOUT THE WORDING AND THE PACKAGING AND FIGHT WITH EVERY LITTLE THING, LIKE THE ABORTION MEASURE.

THERE'S A LONG FIGHT OVER THE WORD FETUS AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN USE IT.

TED: I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE TITLING FIGHTS, 20 TITLING FIGHTS?

>> AT LEAST.

TED: JEREMY, STICKING WITH YOU.

ONE MORE OF THE IDEAS OF PROTESTING AND INCREASING PENALTIES FOR PROTESTS.

THERE IS A BILL BANNING PROTESTS IN OR NEAR CHURCHES, HOUSES OF WORSHIP.

THESE SORTS OF THING.

HOW IS THIS ENFORCED?

>> THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS, DON'T KNOW ALL THE DETAILS AND THIS IS INSPIRED BY, OF COURSE, WE SAW THE INCIDENT IN MINNESOTA WHERE DON LEMON AND OTHER JOURNALISTS WERE AND THE PROTESTERS WERE CHARGED FEDERALLY.

AGAIN, THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO A LOT OF THINGS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

>> YOU GET INTO DEFINITIONAL PROBLEMS THERE.

MAYBE NO PROTESTS IN FRONT OF SCHOOLS.

WHAT ABOUT DAY CARE?

CHURCHES?

WHAT IF YOU HAVE A RELIGIOUS MEETING, QUAKER VASE MEETING HOUSE, UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT, THERE ARE -- ONE THING TO SAY THERE ARE DRUG FREE ZONES AROUND SCHOOLS, INTERFERENCE WITH EDUCATION, WITH BEING AROUND CHILDREN.

WHY SHOULD A CHURCH BE SUBJECT TO SOME DIFFERENT RULES?

YOU CAN GET INTO ISSUES OF DISTURBING SOMETHING, BUT THEY'RE ALREADY LAWS AGAINST DOING THINGS THAT DISTURB THE PEACE.

AGAIN, THIS IS A PROBLEM IN SEARCH OF A SOLUTION.

TED: CAMRYN, THERE'S A BILL WITH LOCAL POLICE CONTACTING I.C.E.

IMMEDIATELY IF THEY THINK THAT SOMEONE IS IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

TALK TO US MORE ABOUT THIS.

>> REMINDS ME OF THE 287-G AGREEMENTS REQUIRING LOCAL ENFORCEMENT TO BE IN TOUCH WITH I.C.E.

AND TO TURN PEOPLE OVER, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH AS SOON AS THEY HAVE THEM.

HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THEY MIGHT BE UNDOCUMENTED, WHICH I THINK, BEGS THE QUESTION OF HOW DID WE IMPLEMENT THAT, AND HOW WOULD THAT WORK WITH OUR LEGAL SYSTEM BECAUSE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DUE PROCESS, AND WE HAVE RULES THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY FOLLOWING, SO IF WE CHANGE THEM, WHAT ARE THE LOGISTICS OF THAT?

I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS YET AND DON'T KNOW MUNICIPALITIES APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MAKING MORE WORK FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.

TED: DUE PROCESS, JEREMY?

IS IT LOST IN THIS ONE?

>> POTENTIALLY.

WE'VE ALREADY HAD -- THIS IS KIND OF AN EXTENSION, REMEMBER SB-1070, THE NEVER-ENDING FIGHT OVER THAT.

THIS IS SIMILAR ABOUT FORCING POLICE OFFICERS TO DETERMINE THE LEGALITY -- THE LEGAL STATUS OF PEOPLE, IF THEY HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE, AND THEN YOU GET INTO QUESTIONS OF WHAT CONSTITUTES REASON TO BELIEVE?

PROHIBITION IN THE LAW AGAINST RACIAL PROFILING.

HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THAT?

>> THAT'S IMPORTANT.

MUCH OF 10 0 WAS VOIDED BY THE U.S.

SUPREME COURT AND THE 9th CIRCUIT.

THAT PROVISION REMAINED.

IF IT'S REASONABLE TO DO, AND YOU HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE, AND IF YOU STOPPED SOMEONE FOR ANY OTHER REASON, YOU SHOULD GO AHEAD AND CALL IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES.

THIS BECOMES A PROBLEM OF, AT THE MOMENT OF ARREST, FIRST OF ALL, HOW DO YOU DETERMINE IF SOMEBODY IS HERE ILLEGALLY?

WELL, YOU HAVE A SONORA DRIVER'S LICENSE, DOES THAT MAKE YOU HERE ILLEGALLY?

THIS COMES DOWN TO THE 287 AGREEMENT, WHERE POLICE ARE TRAINED ON IMMIGRATION LAW.

IF YOU ARE NOT TRAINED ON IMMIGRATION LAW, HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF SOMEONE, BASED ON WHAT, THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN?

TED: THE LAW IS YOU CAN'T GET IN THE WAY.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT THING, FORCIBLY GET IN THE WAY OF FEDERAL ACTION.

THIS IS, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO CALL FEDERAL ACTION.

>> AND DO IT QUICKLY.

PART OF AN EFFORT WE'VE SEEN SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP CAME INTO OFFICE OF WANTING TO BE IN LINE AND IN STEP WITH THE IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION EFFORTS FROM ARIZONA REPUBLICANS WITH LEGISLATION, WITH STATEMENTS, WITH BASICALLY EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT.

TED: YEAH, YEAH, JEREMY, THERE'S A PROPOSAL, IT SOUNDS LIKE, TO PUSH ARIZONA TO HAVE ITS OWN CENSUS.

WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> THIS IS ABOUT REDISTRICTING, WHICH THE NERDY ISSUE PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT, BUT I LOVE.

>> I'VE BEEN MEANING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> THIS HAS BECOME AN ISSUE FEDERALLY WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP TRIED TO DO THIS IN HIS FIRST TERM, COUNT ONLY CITIZENS, THE CONSTITUTION SAYS COUNT EVERYONE.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT AT STATE LEVEL FOR FEDERAL REDISTRICTING.

AT STATE LEVEL, THEY BELIEVE THROUGH MEANS THAT ARE COMPLETELY REAR, THE ARIZONA REDISTRICTING COMMISSION WOULD HAVE ITS OWN CENSUS, YOU CUT OUT FOLKS WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS AND THAT PUTS DEMOCRATS AT A MAJOR DISADVANTAGE, SENATOR HOFFMAN WHO IS BEHIND THE PROPOSAL TALKED ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, ANY CITIZENS TO HAVE EQUAL POPULATION, IF YOU TAKE THE FOLKS OUT, YOU HAVE TO MOVE MORE FOLKS IN THERE, THAT MEANS YOU TAKE DEMOCRATS, YOU DILUTE THE DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS AND MAKES THEM MORE COMPETITIVE AND GIVES REPUBLICANS THE DECIDED ADVANTAGE.

>> THERE IS A REAL PROBLEM HERE.

WE HAVE TWO SETS OF PEOPLE COMING TO YOUR DOOR.

WAIT, I JUST ANSWERED A CENSUS, I'M NOT ANSWERING THIS THING.

DO YOU WANT SOMEBODY COMING TO THE DOOR SAYING ARE YOU A CITIZEN?

I WOULD TEND TO LIE BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO SPEED THINGS UP FOR THE FOLKS, BUT YOU HAVE MIXED HOUSEHOLDS WHERE YOU HAVE SOMEBODY HERE LEGALLY, AND THEN YOU GET THE QUESTION OF NOT JUST HERE LEGALLY, ARE YOU A CITIZEN OR ARE YOU A GREEN CARD HOLDER, ENTITLED TO BE HERE LEGALLY.

WHERE DO THEY FIT INTO THE ISSUE?

AND THE'DS OF GETTING AN ACCURATE COUNT BASED ON THIS, SENDING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE OUT, CHOSEN BY, I DON'T KNOW, JAKE HOFFMAN TO GO DOOR-TO-DOOR, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

TED: THIS WOULD BE, AS FAR AS WAS MENTIONED HERE, THIS IS A SHOW ME YOUR PAPER BIAS ANY OTHER NAME, IS IT NOT?

>> YES, BUT THERE WOULD BE RESPONSE AS HOWIE MENTIONED, FOR A FEW REASONS.

ONE, MIGHT HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT, THEY'RE GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE, IS THIS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER COMING TO THE DOOR, AN I.C.E.

AGENT, AM I IN TROUBLE BECAUSE THEY'RE ASKING ABOUT STATUS?

AND MIGHT NOT THINK IT'S LEGIT BECAUSE THEY ANSWERED BECAUSE WE HAVE THE U.S.

CENSUS QUESTION.

THEY'RE LIKE, THIS SEEMS LIKE A WEIRD SITUATION, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

>> AN IMPORTANT POINT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BALLOT MEASURE.

THIS IS ANOTHER THING THAT WOULD GO ON THE BALLOT.

>> RIGHT.

>> FURTHER LENGTHENING IT.

FURTHER MAKING PEOPLE SPEND MORE TIME AT THE KITCHEN TABLE, ASSUMING WE HAVEN'T KILLED MAIL-IN VOTING.

TED: IF THEY ARE AT THE KITCHEN TABLE LOOKING AT THIS, WOULD VOTERS GO FOR IT?

>> CERTAIN VOTERS WILL.

ANY MEASURE THAT STARTS OUT WITH A BASE OF 35%.

THE QUESTION IS, FOR OTHER PEOPLE, COULD THEY BE CONVINCED THIS IS MORE TROUBLE THAN IT'S WORTH?

IT IS A COST TO THE THING.

MAYBE 5 TO $50 MILLION, DEPENDING HOW YOU PUT IT TOGETHER.

AND HOW HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED IF YOU ARE CHANGING THE CHAIRS IN THE TITANIC, 30 LEGISLATIVE SEATS AND CHANGING THE MAP.

>> YOU ARE GOING DEEP HERE, IS THIS THE KIND OF FLASH ISSUE THAT CAN STICK OUT A LITTLE MORE THAN THE OTHERS IF YOU GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF REFERRALS, MEASURES THERE ON THE BALLOT?

>> IF THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS ON THE BALLOT, IF THERE ARE FEWER THINGS, VOTERS SHOULD SAY ONLY COUNT CITIZENS FOR REDISTRICTING, WITHOUT LOOKING AT OTHER ISSUES LIKE HOW DO YOU PAY FOR IT, A COMPLETELY SEPARATE CENSUS.

IF IT'S ONE OF 15 THINGS ON THE BALLOT, IS ANYONE GOING TO STOP AND READ IT LONG ENOUGH TO CARE?

TED: YEAH.

CAMRYN, THERE'S A MOVE AS WELL FOR THE STATE TO DECIDE WHEN ELECTIONS AND MUNICIPALITIES SHOULD OCCUR, THE OLD STATE V. LOCAL ARGUMENT?

>> YES, NOT THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE THE ARGUMENT EITHER.

ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE TAKING IT TO THE PEOPLE, RIGHT?

THIS IS A MESNARD PROPOSAL, AND IT'S GETTING AROUND THE LAST TIME WE HAD A RULING ON THIS.

THERE ARE PLACES LIKE TUCSON WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT ELECTION TIMELINE AND THE ARGUMENT FROM MESNARD AND OTHER REPUBLICANS IS IT'S BASICALLY ANNOYING BECAUSE VOTERS HAVE TO VOTE IN MORE ELECTION THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE TO.

LET'S CONSOLIDATE AND HAVE THE ELECTION DAY THAT'S STATE MANDATED AND EVERYONE IS GOING TO LOVE IT.

TUCSON DOESN'T LOVE IT, WE LIKE HAVING OUR OWN THING AND THE COURT ASSERTED OUR POWER OF LOCAL CONTROL OVER ELECTIONS TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING SO BUTT OUT.

TED: THOSE ARE THE CHARTER CITIES.

>> CHARTER CITIES.

THERE ARE 17 IN THE STATE.

CHANDLER, PRESCOTT, TUCSON, TEMPE AND AS YOU POINT OUT, THE SUPREME COURT SAID THE CONSTITUTION SAYS YOU HAVE POWERS.

THIS WOULD AMEND THE CONSTITUTION AND GET AROUND THE SUPREME COURT RULING.

NOW WE'RE DOWN TO THE ISSUE OF WHY DO CITIES WANT LOCAL ELECTIONS SEPARATE?

WELL, WHAT HAVE WE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL NIGHT?

THE LENGTH OF THE BALLOT.

REMEMBER, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ON THE BALLOT, STARTING WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE OR PRESIDENTIAL RACE DOWN TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, MEMBERS OF LEGISLATURE.

87,000 BALLOT MEASURES.

JUDGE RETENTION THINGS AND DOWN AT THE BOTTOM, IF YOU'RE NOT ALREADY ASLEEP, ARE THE CITY ISSUES.

>> I THOUGHT I READ IT WAS THE FIRST TUESDAY AFTER THE FIRST MONDAY IN NOVEMBER, AS FAR AS EVEN NUMBERED YEARS, ARE THEY TRYING TO GET A LITTLE SEPARATION THERE OR POSSIBLY NOT CARE LESS?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY COULD CARE LESS.

THERE ARE TWO ARGUMENTS AND THE TUCSON ARGUMENT, PEOPLE WILL PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THE CITY ISSUES.

ONE CITY BALLOT VOTING IN TUCSON, MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBER, MAYBE LOCAL PROPOSITIONS.

THE FLIPSIDE IS TURNOUT.

THAT'S THE ARGUMENT REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS MADE A LOT.

IF YOU HAVE A NOVEMBER OFF-YEAR ELECTION, TURNOUT IS GOING TO BE HALF OR LESS FOR REGULAR NOVEMBER ELECTION, AND THE REPUBLICAN ARGUMENT HAS LONG BEEN BASICALLY VOTER SUPPRESSION.

>> JEREMY STOLE A GREAT POINT I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE, BUT YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY LIKE YOU ARE CONSOLIDATING IT AND EVERYONE GETS IT KNOCKED OUT AT ONCE, IF THEY ARE SHOWING UP FOR THE FANCY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, FOR EXAMPLE, IT WILL INCREASE TURNOUT FOR THE DOWNBALLOTS.

THE FEAR WHAT HOWIE IS SAYING, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE A.C.T.

AT THE BALLOT BOX, THEY ARE GOING TO FILL OUT WHAT THEY WANT AND GO HOME.

TED: HOWIE, WE'VE SEEN THE GOVERNOR AND T.J.

SHOPE GOING BACK AND FORTH REGARDING CALL IT PAY TO PLAY, WHATEVER YOU WANT HERE, BUT THE GOVERNOR WENT ON THE OFFENSIVE HERE NOW.

>> EXACTLY.

THE LIST GOES BACK TO SUNSHINE RESIDENTIAL WHICH PROVIDES CARE FOR FOSTER CHILDREN, THEY WANTED A HIKE IN THEIR PAY.

THEY GOT TURNED DOWN AND GOT TWO RAISES BACK TO BACK.

WE'VE COME TO FIND OUT SUNSHINE PUT IN 400,000, $100,000 INTO THE GOVERNOR'S INAUGURAL, ANOTHER $300,000 INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHICH LEADS TO PAY-FOR-PLAY.

T.J.

SHOPE HAD A BILL, VERY SIMPLE, IF YOU ARE BIDDING ON A STATE CONTRACT, YOU HAVE TO SAY WHO HAVE YOU GIVEN TO AND THERE ARE FORMS GOING BACK FIVE YEARS.

GOVERNOR VETOED IT, BETWEEN US KIDS, COCKAMAMIE ANSWER THAT DIDN'T ADDRESS THE ISSUE.

SHE SAID I'LL COME BACK WITH MY OWN PLAN.

WELL, HER OWN PLAN, IS WE'LL GIVE YOU A LIST OF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE CORPORATIONS THAT BID, AND YOU CAN CHECK SOMEWHERE ELSE AND SEE IF THEY'VE GIVEN.

WELL, WHEN T.J.

SHOPE SAID NO, THERE IS LOOPHOLES IN THERE.

WHAT ABOUT LEGAL DEFENSE FUNDS AND INAUGURAL FUNDS?

SHE SENT OFF HER PRESS AIDE TO SAY, WELL, LOOK, THERE IS FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE AND HE TOOK $5,000 IN MEALS, AND THAT SHOWS THAT HE REALLY DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OPENNESS, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THEY WENT BACK -- I CHECKED KATIE HOBBS' FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE BACK TO 2012, SHE NEVER LISTED MEALS IN THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES.

TALKING ABOUT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.

TED: $4500 FOR MEALS AND ENTERTAINMENT.

HOW WERE THESE FOUND?

ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS?

>> LOBBYISTS HAVE TO -- THEY ARE ON DISCLOSURE ON THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE.

GOVERNOR HOBBS IS HIGHLIGHTING SOMETHING PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE ABOUT POLITICS, ABOUT COZYING UP TO LOBBYISTS AND LAWMAKERS.

PROBLEM IS I DON'T KNOW IF VOTERS CARE.

THIS IS ABOUT THE SUNSHINE RESIDENTIAL SCANDAL, BIG SCANDAL, MADE THE GOVERNOR LOOK VERY BAD.

WE'LL SEE 5 MILLION TO $10 MILLION OF ADVERTISING ATTACKING HER FOR THE ELECTION.

I DON'T THINK MOST OF THEM ARE GOING TO READ IN FAR ENOUGH AND SAY IT DOESN'T ADDRESS LOBBYIST MEALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

THEY'RE SEEING KATIE HOBBS VETOED A BILL THAT ADDRESSED A SCANDAL THE REPUBLICANS ARE ATTACKING HER ON.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE STRATEGY IS.

>> I'VE BEEN DOWN THERE SINCE '82.

EVERY YEAR THE QUESTION COMES UP WHAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED?

WE STOPPED ALLOWING CERTAIN FREE TICKETS, FOR EXAMPLE, A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THE BASEBALL AND FOOTBALL GAMES, BUT THE ISSUE OF LOBBYISTS' LUNCHES AND SUCH, LOBBYISTS TAKE LAWMAKERS OUT TO LUNCH.

I WANT TO BEND YOUR EAR AND REPORTED ON THE LOBBYIST FORM.

T.J.

SHOPE REPORTED I WENT TO CERTAIN CONFERENCES AND THAT WAS PAID FOR.

TED: RIGHT.

>> BUT IN TERMS OF THE INDIVIDUAL MEALS, AGAIN, YOU WANT TO GET RID OF IT, FINE.

HER MEASURE WOULD SAY NO LOBBYIST MEALS.

PUT IN A SEPARATE BILL FOR THAT.

DON'T TRY TO TIE IT TO A HALF-BAKED BILL ON FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE.

TED: THE GOVERNOR BEING ON THE OFFENSIVE HERE AS OPPOSED TO BEING ON THE DEFENSIVE, WHICH SHE HAS BEEN FOR THE ENTIRE SITUATION.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

IS THAT A BIG DEAL?

DOES IT MATTER AT ALL?

>> IT'S AN APPLES AND ORANGES THING.

IN JOURNALISM WE HAVE WHAT ABOUTISM, WHICH IS WHERE THIS PERSON DID SOMETHING WRONG.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?

YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG THAT IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE.

DID YOU THIS THING WITH SUNSHINE RESIDENTIAL AND YOU ARE ATTACKING SHOPE FOR NOT REPORTING HOW HE'S GETTING WINED AND DINED, AS I'M SURE EVERYBODY IS GETTING WINED AND DINED.

AND I DON'T SEE HOW THAT TAKES THE HEAT OFF OF HER OVERALL.

IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

AND THE PROPOSAL THAT IS GROUNDBREAKING ETHICS REFORM AND TRANSPARENCY.

I'M SORRY TO BE JADED ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE THE SEC, WE HAVE CERTAIN THINGS IN PLACE NOW AND THEY'RE NOT THAT GREAT, AND PEOPLE ARE OFTEN LATE TO DISCLOSE AND I DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH FAITH IN THEM FRANKLY.

>> ONE OTHER POINT ABOUT THE SUNSHINE RESIDENTIAL THING.

THERE ARE TWO IF NOT THREE INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, DEMOCRATIC A.G.

NO MATTER WHAT KRIS MAYES RULES, IF KRIS MAYES SAYS CRIMES WERE COMMITTED, THAT LOOKS BAD.

THE ONE CONDUCTED BY MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND RACHEL MITCHELL IS LOOKING INTO THINGS AND THE HOUSE HIRED ITS OWN ATTORNEY.

THIS IS GOING TO BLEED RIGHT THROUGH NOVEMBER 3rd.

TED: BEFORE WE GET OUT OF HERE.

THERE IS ANOTHER REFERRAL, NO MEDICAL MANDATES PUTTING THAT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

EXPLAIN PLEASE.

>> PROHIBITING GOVERNMENT FROM REQUIRING VACCINES FOR GOVERNMENT FACILITIES, SCHOOLS, PARKS, GOVERNMENT JOBS.

SCHOOLS IS WORTH NOTING.

THERE IS A BROAD EXEMPTION FOR PERSONAL BELIEF.

PROBABLY ONE OF THE BROADEST EXEMPTIONS IN THE COUNTRY.

I DON'T WANT TO VACCINATE MY KID FOR MEASLES BECAUSE OF X OR Y, BUT WOULD MAKE IT SO IF THERE'S AN OUTBREAK, THE LAW SAYS KIDS WHO AREN'T VACCINATED GET SENT HOME FROM SCHOOL.

THIS WOULD PROHIBIT THAT.

TED: AND CAMRYN, NO MEDICAL PROCEDURE MANDATES, NO MEDICAL TREATMENT, NO MASK MANDATES.

I THINK I KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> SOMETIME I THINK WE'VE MOVED ON FROM COVID AND I'M REMIND WE HAVEN'T.

PEOPLE ARE JADED ABOUT IT AT THE TIME.

THERE IS A DECENT AMOUNT OF ARIZONANS WHO CARE ABOUT THIS, ARZ IS A DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO STATE.

THIS IS PUSHED BY REPUBLICANS.

THE MASK THING GOES A STEP FURTHER, THAT'S THE POINT I'M WONDERING IS MOST RIPE FOR A CHALLENGE THERE BECAUSE A MEDICAL SURGERY, FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD TEND TO AGREE, YOU CAN'T FORCE ME TO CUT OFF MY ARMS AND LEGS, BUT FORCE ME TO WEAR OR NOT WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHING ITEMS?

NOBODY LIKES BEING FORCED TO DO ANYTHING, BUT THAT MIGHT BE THE PART THERE'S MORE OF A HOLDUP.

TED: YEA OR NAY, ON THE BALLOT PROVIDED PEOPLE CAN FIND IT.

>> YOU SHOULDN'T MAKE ME INJECT MY BODY WITH SOMETHING I DON'T WANT.

YOU SHOULDN'T MAKE ME WEAR A MASK BECAUSE I WANT TO GO TO THE STATE OFFICE BUILDING.

IN TERMS OF THAT VERSUS DEI, THAT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN WRAP THEIR HEADS AROUND.

TED: THERE ARE CAVEATS FOR HEALTH EMERGENCIES?

>> I THINK THERE ARE, I THINK THE SCHOOL THING IS SOMETHING PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE EXEMPTIONS WORK.

YOU SHOULD HAVE VACCINES FOR SCHOOLS, MASSIVE MEASLES OUTBREAK GOING ON.

TED: WE'LL STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.