♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE STATE LEGISLATURE FINALLY AGREEING TO AND PASSING A STATE BUDGET.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, DENNIS WELCH FROM ARIZONA FAMILY.

JIM SMALL FROM THE "ARIZONA MIRROR" AND WAYNE SCHUTSKY FROM KJZZ RADIO.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

DENNIS, WE'LL START WITH YOU, AS WE RECORD AT 4:00 ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON, SOUNDS LIKE THE GOVERNOR HAS OR IS ABOUT TO SIGN A BUDGET.

>> SHE HELPED NEGOTIATE THIS BUDGET.

I DO EXPECT HER TO BE SIGNING THIS BUDGET, IF SHE HASN'T SIGNED IT BY NOW.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A COUPLE OF DAYS MAKE.

JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, I DIDN'T KNOW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME, ARE WE GOING TO SEE A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN?

I WOULD ALWAYS BET, THEY'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF SOLUTION HERE, BUT I GUESS YOU COME UP WITH A DEADLINE, THEY KIND OF ACTED LIKE JOURNALISTS.

YOU DON'T GET MUCH DONE UNTIL THERE'S A DEADLINE.

THEY SAW THE DEADLINE COMING AND PASSED THE BUDGET TO AVOID THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

TED: JIM, GIVE THE LAY OF THE LAND.

HOW DO WE GET IN A POSITION WHERE DENNIS WELCH OVER HERE IS WORRYING ABOUT A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

>> GO BACK SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT WEEKS, THE NEGOTIATION STARTED IN SERIOUS FORMAT.

HOUSE REPUBLICANS, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, FROM THE SENATE REPUBLICANS, CHIEF OF STAFF EXPLAINED TO ME, LOOK, IN AN E-MAIL HE SENT TO ALL HOUSE REPUBLICANS, BASICALLY TO LAY OUT WHAT HAPPENED FROM THE SENATORS' POINT OF VIEW COMPARED TO WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TOLD.

WE'VE BEEN NEGOTIATING.

THE HOUSE WASN'T INTERESTED IN COMING TO THE TABLE.

THEY LOOKED AT THE CLOCK AND SAID WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

SO THEY STARTED HAVING INTENSE NEGOTIATION.

THE HOUSE WAS NEVER SERIOUSLY INVOLVED, AND AT THAT POINT, THE SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR CAME UP WITH THE FRAMEWORK.

WE GOT THE SENATE PLAN, PUSHING IT FORWARD, AND WENT TO THE HOUSE AND SAID DO YOU HAVE REQUESTS, DO YOU WANT ANYTHING IN HERE?

THEY INCORPORATED STUFF FROM THE HOUSE, AND THE HOUSE DECIDED WE'RE GOING TO PASS OUR OWN THING.

WE DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND THAT KIND OF REALLY SPARKED THIS SHOWDOWN THAT WE HAD.

THE HOUSE ULTIMATELY PASSED TWO BUDGETS.

A FULL YEAR BUDGET AND CONTINUATION BUDGET WHICH HOLDS FUNDING STEADY, BOTH OF THOSE, ONCE THEY GOT TO THE CHAMBERS, THE SENATE A COUPLE DAYS AGO WENT AHEAD AND PASSED THEM AND SAID WE'RE GOING TO SEND THEM TO THE GOVERNOR.

THE GOVERNOR SAID SHE'S GOING TO VETO THEM.

WITHIN 20 MINUTES THE GOVERNOR SENT THEM BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THAT PRECIPITATED THIS FINAL DEAL HAPPENING, WHICH ESSENTIALLY WAS THE HOUSE TOOK UP THE SENATE BUDGET THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN PASSED.

MADE A COUPLE SMALL CHANGES AND NEGOTIATED A COUPLE OF MINOR CHANGES TO SAVE FACE TO GET THIS THING OUT THERE AND PASSED THAT LAST NIGHT, AND TODAY THE SENATE, FRIDAY MORNING THE SENATE PICKED IT UP, PASSED IT AND THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO SIGN IT.

TED: THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP, WHAT IS THE THINKS THERE?

WAS IT TO SHAME THE GOVERNOR?

TO SHAME THE SENATE?

WAS IT TO WASTE TIME?

WHAT WAS THE THINKING?

>> THE VIBE I GOT IS THEY FELT DISRESPECTED BY THE PROCESS.

HOUSE SPEAKER STEVE MONTENEGRO, WHEN INVITED TO THE TABLE, THE GENERAL TERMS WERE DICTATED TO HIM.

HE SAID THAT'S NOT HOW THIS WORKS, WE ARE EQUAL NEGOTIATION.

EVERYTHING GOT HEATED, EVERYBODY GOT ANGRILY.

THE FIRST BUDGET THE HOUSE PASSED WAS $300 MILLION IN SPENDING.

THE SPECIFICS WERE DIFFERENT.

$300 MILLION OUT OF $17.6 BILLION BUDGET, BUT ALLOWING THE TWO BUDGETS TO GET PASSED IN THE SENATE, GO TO THE GOVERNOR, EVEN IF IT WAS PERFUNCTORY, LETS THE GOVERNOR CONSIDER ALL THREE BUDGETS AND SIGN THE ONE SHE HELPED NEGOTIATE.

>> IT COMES DOWN TO PERSONALITIES AND COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE TWO CHAMBERS.

I WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY OVER HERE, A LAWMAKER.

SAID THE ANIMOSITY BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE MAYBE AS MUCH AS THE ANIMOSITY BETWEEN REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR AT THIS POINT.

BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING THERE BECAUSE, AS WAYNE WAS SAYING, YOU PUT THE TWO BUDGETS UP, WASN'T A BIG DIFFERENCE.

TED: HOUSE WANTED TO CUT MEDICAID AND GIVE MORE MONEY TO RECORDERS AND KEEPING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND ATTORNEYS FROM -- SEEMED LIKE IDEOLOGICAL THINGS, BECAUSE THE HOUSE IS NOT GOING TO GO WITH THE GOVERNOR.

THEY HAD TO WORK THINGS OUT.

>> THEY WERE MORE IDEOLOGICAL.

THEY WERE SIMILAR, THE POLICY SIDE OF IT.

THE THINGS THAT GO ALONG WITH THE SPENDING, THAT'S WHERE YOU SAW DIFFERENCES.

A LOT MORE IDEOLOGY DRIVEN PROVISIONS IN THE HOUSE BUDGET, WHICH MAKES SENSE BECAUSE THEY NEGOTIATED WITH THE GOVERNOR.

THE FREEDOM CAUCUS GAINED MEMBERS IN THE LAST ELECTION, AND ULTIMATELY ABOUT TRYING TO APPEASE THE FREEDOM CAUCUS MEMBERS AND THE PURPOSE WAS VETO SERVED, DRIVING HOME THE POINT THAT LOOK, THIS IDEA THAT ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO DO AREN'T GOING TO PASS MUSTER WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AGITATING FOR A STRONGER POSITION OR NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE.

SOMETIMES THEY NEED TO HAVE THE VETOES HAPPEN.

IN PAST YEARS, REPUBLICANS SEND UP A BUDGET.

JAN BREWER DID THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES, GOVERNOR DUCEY A NUMBER OF TIMES.

YOU HAVE THE SITUATION WHERE THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO REALLY DEMONSTRATE, HEY, LOOK, I'M SERIOUS, I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS.

GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.

TED: YOU TALK ABOUT SAVING FACE, JIM, YOU MENTIONED SAVING FACE.

WAS FACE SAVED?

>> DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.

IF YOU ASK THE HOUSE SPEAKER, WE GOT CONCESSIONS WHAT WE WANTED.

WHAT THAT AMOUNTED TO WAS INCREASED OVERSIGHT OVER SPENDING IN MORE MONEY FOR THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S OFFICE.

SPENDING CUTS BUT TOLD US $100 MILLION OVER THREE YEARS, $30 MILLION IN THE BUDGET, IN TERMS OF A STATE BUDGET IS NOT A HUGE AMOUNT OF SAVINGS BUT ABLE TO EXTRACT SOMETHING THAT SAID THIS DID CHANGE WHEN WE CAME TO THE CHAMBER, HOW MUCH?

DEMOCRATS AND THE GOVERNOR EVEN THE PRESIDENT SAID.

TED: WHERE ARE DEMOCRATS IN ALL THIS, BESIDE THE GOVERNOR?

>> DEMOCRATS, IT'S A BIPARTISAN BUDGET.

THERE'S A LOT IN THIS BUDGET THEY CAN LIKE.

THERE'S STUFF IN THERE THEY DON'T LIKE.

SOME DEMOCRATS WERE UPSET WITH SOME OF THE MONEY IN THE BUDGET GOING TO BORDER ENFORCEMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT BY AND LARGE, I THINK THE GOVERNOR GETS CREDIT TONIGHT FOR MOSTLY KEEPING HER CAUCUS IN LINE, THE STRATEGY HERE, DIVIDING THE LEGISLATURE, BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND KEEPING THE CAUCUS.

TO GET A BUDGET THAT IS BIPARTISAN, THAT SHE CAN POINT TO WINS IN THE BUDGET.

TED: BIPARTISAN BUDGET BUT MOSTLY BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WAS THERE NEGOTIATING WITH SENATE LEADERS?

>> YEAH, AND AS YOU WOULD EXPECT, RIGHT?

SHE CARRIES THE VETO PEN AND SHE HAS UNDERSTANDABLY A LOT OF POWER IN THE NEGOTIATIONS.

I THINK THAT THIS IS A TELLING DIFFERENCE, THIS YEAR'S BUDGET IN TERMS OF HOW DEMOCRATS WERE MORE SUPPORTIVE THAN A COUPLE YEARS AGO, ESPECIALLY DURING GOVERNOR HOBBS' FIRST YEAR, DEMOCRATS WERE WRANGLED BY THE WAY HER OFFICE HANDLED NEGOTIATIONS.

THIS YEAR, DEMOCRATS WERE MOSTLY IN LINE, NOT ENTIRELY AS DENNIS SAID, AND I THINK INITIALLY THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER WAS OPPOSED TO THE BUDGET PLAN WHEN IT WENT THROUGH THE SENATE THE FIRST TIME.

THERE DEFINITELY WERE DEMOCRATS WHO DIDN'T LIKE THINGS IN IT BUT NOT ENOUGH TO DERAIL THE PLAN.

TED: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT, WAYNE.

WE REMEMBER YEARS PAST WITH, GOVERNOR HOBBS, DEMOCRATS NOT THRILLED WITH THE WAY SHE NEGOTIATED BUDGETS AND NEGOTIATED WITH REPUBLICANS.

LITTLE DIFFERENT THIS GO-AROUND?

>> FOR MOST OF THE REPUBLICANS, YES.

UPSET WITH THE GANG ENFORCEMENT FUNDING THAT INCLUDES LANGUAGE THAT COULD TARGET PEOPLE WHO AREN'T IN THE COUNTRY LEGALLY AND REINING IN THE ESA PROGRAM.

FEW ARE OFF BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT THE GOVERNOR GOT A LOT OF WINS AS WELL.

EVERYONE WANTED RAISES FOR DPS OFFICERS, SHE GOT THAT.

GOT MONEY FOR -- TO SHRINK THE WAIT LIST FOR CHILD CARE ASSISTANCE AND BRINGS IN FEDERAL MONEY TO FURTHER INCREASE THAT POT, SO YEAH, I THINK SHE KIND OF DID THE SAME THING SENATE REPUBLICANS DID.

SHE SAID REPUBLICANS ARE NEVER GOING TO GO FOR ESA CUTS, BUT THEY'RE GOING FOR THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER THING SO THEY WERE ABLE TO EXTRACT THE CONCESSIONS THAT MADE SENSE.

TED: DENNIS, BACK TO YOUR POINT REGARDING REPUBLICAN ON REPUBLICAN VIOLENCE.

SOUNDS LIKE THERE ARE SORE FEELINGS GOING AROUND.

>> THERE ARE.

I CONFIRMED THERE ARE, AND YOU SAW THAT PLAY OUT JUST THIS AFTERNOON.

YOU HAD, IN THE SENATE, YOU HAD A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP TODAY.

YOU HAD THE MAJORITY LEADER, JEN A SHAM, THEY GOT RID OF HER AND REPLACED HER WITH JOHN KAVANAGH.

A DIRECT RESULT WITH WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.

SHE WAS PART OF THE LEADERSHIP, AND YOU CAN'T DO, THAT YOU GOT TO GO WITH WHAT LEADERSHIP WANTS, AND BECAUSE OF ALL THIS, BECAUSE OF THE HURT FEELINGS, I HEARD THAT SENATE PRESIDENT CALLED THIS MEETING TODAY, AN ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING AND SURPRISED EVERYBODY WITH THIS, AND THEN THEY VOTED TO REPLACE HER AND PUT JOHN KAVANAGH IN AS THE MAJORITY LEADER MOVING FORWARD.

TED: SEEMED LIKE A SURPRISE, FOR THOSE OF US ON THE OUTSIDE, IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE?

>> THE TIMING OF THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY SURPRISING, THAT THERE WAS A CONSEQUENCE FOR SENATOR SHAMPDOING THAT.

LEADERSHIP, AT A MINIMUM LEADERSHIP STICKS TOGETHER.

YOU COULD SEE THE FRUSTRATION IN SENATE PRESIDENT PETERSEN, HE GAVE A BLISTERING SPEECH ABOUT HOW, LOOK, THIS TOXIC POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT IS DRIVING THIS ENTIRE SITUATION, THAT WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN, AND I THINK HE WAS DIRECTLY CALLING OUT PEOPLE LIKE JAKE HOFFMAN AND SOME OF THE OTHERS IN THE FREEDOM CAUCUS GROUP WHO WERE REALLY KIND OF STIRRING UP A LOT OF THIS -- THIS ANGER AND BAD FEELINGS AND KIND OF TRYING TO MOUNT A REBELLION ASSESSMENT.

>> PEOPLE ARE QUESTIONING THE TIMING OF THE ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING.

WHAT HAVE WE GONE THROUGH?

A COUPLE OF WEEKS OF REALLY INTENSE VOTING AND NEGOTIATIONS.

EMOTIONS ARE HIGH, TEMPERS ARE FLARED AT THIS POINT, I'M WONDERING AND SOMEWHERE WONDERING WHETHER PETERSEN SHOULD HAVE HELD OFF ON THIS, LET EVERYTHING COOL DOWN, SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> IT SHOWS THAT PETERSEN HAS THE SUPPORT OF THE MAJORITY OF THE CAUCUS, THOSE WHO WERE THERE TODAY, BECAUSE HE NEEDED A MAJORITY VOTE MEMBERS TO PULL THIS OFF.

THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE FROM A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN HE CAME INTO THE PRESIDENCY AND IT WAS A SPLIT VOTE SITUATION.

HE EDGED OFF THE MAJORITY.

THERE IS HIJINKS POTENTIALLY INVOLVED WITH THE VOTE.

HE HAS, I THINK, CONSOLIDATED POWER TO A POINT, AND THIS WAS HIS WAY OF KIND OF SHOWING IT.

TED: SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT SENATOR KAVANAUGH, A PRAGMATIST SAYING YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, HE'S GOING TO VETO IT.

>> SENATOR KAVANAUGH KNOWS THE REALITIES OF ARIZONA POLITICS, AND WAS BASICALLY THE CHIEF NEGOTIATOR ON THIS BUDGET.

VERY ALIGNED WITH THE SENATE PRESIDENT.

>> THE NIGHT THE SENATE WAS PASSING THEIR BUDGET, INTERESTING TO WATCH KAVANAUGH GIVE SPEECHES.

A BUNCH OF AMENDMENTS OFFERED BY SENATOR JAKE HOFFMAN, AND KAVANAUGH WOULD SAY AS MUCH AS I AGREE WITH HOFFMAN AND SPEAR IN PHILOSOPHY, IF YOU DO THIS, IT WILL POISON THE BUDGET NEGOTIATED FOR THE GOVERNOR.

HE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN THAT.

TED: JIM, BACK TO WARREN PETERSEN, STRONG WORDS.

A FEW OF THE INEXPERIENCED LEGISLATORS HAVE BEEN HOODWINKED BY CHARLATANS, TO ALLOW THE EMPEROR TO WEAR NO CLOTHES, AND DOESN'T TAKE LEADERSHIP INCOMPETENCE AND COURAGE TO PASS A BIPARTISAN -- THIS IS STRONG STUFF FROM A GUY -- HE'S NOT A RINO FOR GOODNESS SAKES.

>> MOST PEOPLE WOULD CONSIDER HIM NOT TO BE A RINO.

THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS CALLED HIM THAT IN EXACTLY THOSE WORDS AS THE FIGHT WAS GOING ON BECAUSE HE WAS DARING TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNOR.

YEAH, HE'S NOT, RIGHT?

HE'S VERY CONSERVATIVE, AND HIS BONA FIDES ARE SOLID ON THAT.

THIS IS THE THING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAYBE TO THE RIGHT OF CENTER WITHIN THE CAUCUS GET ELECTED INTO THE LEADERSHIP POSTS.

WE SAW IT WITH ANDY BIGS, RUSSELL PEARCE.

YOU HAVE TO GOVERN.

YOU CAN'T JUST STAND THERE AND PLANT YOUR FLAG LIKE YOU CAN IF YOU'RE A BACK BENCH MEMBER AND SAY I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS THING.

YOU HAVE TO.

JAKE HOFFMAN HAS THE PLEASURE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE HE'S NOT IN CHARGE OF MAKING SURE THINGS GET DONE AND GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

WARREN PETERSEN IS.

HE REALIZED THE POLITICAL REALITY IS WE HAVE TO COMPROMISE AS MUCH AS THE GOVERNOR HAS TO COMPROMISE WITH REPUBLICANS, AND THAT MEANS THAT EVERY BUDGET, ANYONE WHO VOTES, YES ON A BUDGET HAS TO HOLD THEIR NOSE AND VOTE ON IT BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE BUDGET, WHETHER REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

>> SPEAKING OF JAKE HOFFMAN, A LOT OF THE RANCOR CAN BE TRACED TO THE FREEDOM CAUCUS THAT HE LEADS.

HE OPENLY SAID HE WORKED WITH HOUSE LEADERSHIP TO TANK THIS BUDGET WHEN THE DRAMA FIRST STARTED.

OBVIOUSLY THAT WASN'T SUCCESSFUL.

THE SAME AMENDMENTS THE FREEDOM CAUCUS WERE TRYING TO INTRODUCE, MEDICAID CUTS, CUTS TO S.N.A.P., REINING IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO BROUGHT A CASE AGAINST JAKE HOFFMAN.

AS JIM SAID, THEY HAVE THE PLEASURE OF BEING SO-CALLED IDEOLOGICALLY PURE, AS THEY LIKE TO SEE IT, AND FIGHTING FOR EVERYTHING THEY WANT, AND IT'S ALL OR NOTHING, BUT SENATE PRESIDENT DOESN'T HAVE THE LUXURY.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, WHAT'S INTERESTING IN THE SENATE IS MOVING FORWARD.

THEY HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER NEXT YEAR, AND THERE ARE HURT FEELINGS, AND YES, THERE IS ONE CAUCUS, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS, THERE ARE FACTIONS.

WHAT DO THE FACTIONS LOOK LIKE, AND HOW COULD IT GET IN THE WAY OF THE AGENDA NEXT YEAR?

REPUBLICANS ARE GOING INTO ELECTION CYCLE NEXT YEAR.

BIG YEAR, 2026.

COULD THE HURT FEELINGS CARRY OVER INTO NEXT YEAR AND GET IN THE WAY OF THE REPUBLICAN AGENDA WHEN THEY COME BACK IN JANUARY?

TED: COULD ALL OF THIS GET IN THE WAY OF WARREN PETERSEN'S RUN FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL?

IS HE GOING TO GET PRIMARIED FOR GOODNESS SAKES?

>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TIME LEFT WITH WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

SURE.

BUT I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF HE'S THE ONLY MAINSTREAM REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE TO BE IN THAT FIELD.

TED: WOULD IT BE FROM THE RIGHT?

>> I MEAN, WHY NOT?

WE REGULARLY SEE THAT, AND I THINK THAT HE CERTAINLY BY HAVING TO GOVERN AND NEGOTIATE WITH HOBBS, OPENED THE DOOR.

RODNEY GLASSMAN IS SENDING OUT FUND-RAISING PLEAS, WARREN PETERSEN IS A RINO, JUMPING ONTO THAT TRAIN THAT FOLKS LIKE DAVID LIVINGSTON WERE GOING AFTER AND FREEDOM CAUCUS FOLKS FIGHTING ON THE BUDGET.

I THINK THERE'S ABSOLUTELY A LIKELIHOOD HE'S GOING TO FACE, AN ATTEMPT TO KNOCK HIM OUT, WHAT I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD SEE AS A TOP SPOT IN THE RACE RIGHT NOW.

>> AND HOFFMAN IS BRINGING HIS OWN CANDIDATES FORWARD FOR A RANGE OF STATEWIDE OFFICES.

HE WAS TELLING CAMRYN SANCHEZ, MY FELLOW REPORTER HE WAS GOING TO FALL OFF IN THE RACE.

THAT WAS BEFORE.

NOW IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME TO SEE HOFFMAN CANDIDATE TO BE IN THE RACE.

>> I WAS SPEAKING TO A REPUBLICAN WHO WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE A CAMPAIGN WITH HOFFMAN'S ENDORSEMENT AND ALSO SPEAKER MONTENEGRO.

AS WE WERE TALKING EARLIER IN THE SEGMENT, THERE IS HOSTILITY BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND BETWEEN THOSE TWO LEADERS AT LEAST POLITICALLY TOO.

TED: JIM, THE GOVERNOR, AS WE SIT HERE NOW.

169 VETOES.

A LITTLE BIT TO GO HERE.

THAT'S LIKE A RECORD BY 23, 26 VETOES.

SHE'S REALLY GONE TO TOWN, HUH?

>> SHE HAS.

IT'S AMAZING HOW MUCH YOU CAN PAD YOUR STAT US WHEN VETO TWO BUDGETS ON THE SAME DAY.

TED: YEAH.

>> IT WAS 28 THAT GOT VETOED IN ONE DAY.

OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A BIG DEAL, AND THOSE WERE ALWAYS DESTINED TO BE VETOED IF THEY LANDED ON HER DESK AND FOLLOWED THROUGH ON IT, BUT IT REALLY IS.

I KNOW THAT FIRST YEAR WHEN WE WERE ALL WATCHING THE CONFLICT BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR AND COUNTING THE VETOES AND TRACKING IT.

THIS YEAR FELT LIKE IT SNUCK UP ON ME.

I THINK MAYBE SIX WEEKS AGO, I HAPPENED TO LOOK AT THAT NUMBER.

OH, MY GOODNESS, SHE'S RIGHT ON THE CUSP, TEN BEHIND.

WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE AGAIN THIS YEAR, AND HERE WE ARE.

TED: REPUBLICANS SAY IT SHOWS UNWILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH THE LEGISLATURE DOES, THAT HAVE TRACTION?

>> I ASKED THE GOVERNOR ABOUT THIS, IT HIT ME THE SAME WAY, AND WE ENDED UP DOING A STORY ABOUT THIS.

SHE SAID YOU HAVE TO ASK THEM WHY THEY SEND ME THE SAME STUFF I'VE VETOED BEFORE.

BY AND LARGE, IT'S TRUE.

THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF, ANTI-TRANS LEGISLATION THAT SHE VETOED IN THE FIRST YEAR AND SENATE PRESIDENT PETERSEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT AND SAID WE GOT NEW MEMBERS, PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T HERE WHEN SHE VETOED IT THE LAST TIME.

BY AND LARGE, THAT DOESN'T HOLD WATER, EVERY TIME SHE VETOES SOMETHING, IT ADDS SOMETHING NEW TO IT.

>> THEY ARE SAYING LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

WHAT IS MORE CLEAR THAN A VETO LETTER?

OBVIOUSLY, PRIOR TO THAT.

IF YOU ARE SENDING BACK THE STUFF VETOED PRIOR AND NOT MAKING CHANGES OR ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE IT, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

TED: WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN AS FAR AS THE GOVERNOR'S RUN FOR RE-ELECTION HAVING A VETO RECORD LIKE THIS?

DOES IT HELP HER?

HURT HER?

MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE FOR HER?

>> IT MAKES THE CASE THIS IS WHAT ARIZONA WOULD LOOK LIKE HAD I NOT BEEN HERE, YOU WOULD SEE THIS BILL PASS AND THAT BILL PASS.

THAT'S A STRONG POINT HERE.

SHE'S GOING TO STRUGGLE TO THE POINT THAT SOME OF THE BIG THINGS SHE'S ACCOMPLISHED.

ONE OF THE THINGS SHE PROMISED, SHE PROMISED TO PUT GUARDRAILS ON THE ESA SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM.

SHE HAS NOT DONE THAT, BUT SHE CAN SAY I STOPPED A LOT OF BAD STUFF, FROM HER POINT OF VIEW, FROM HAPPENING.

TED: TALK GENERAL ELECTION, OBVIOUSLY NOT PRIMARY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PRIMARY AGAINST THE GOVERNOR, YOU NEVER KNOW.

AS FAR AS GENERAL ELECTION, GENERAL POPULOUS, DO THEY LIKE THE IDEA OF THE VETOES OR WHAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT MIGHT BE PART OF THE CAMPAIGN.

IT'S NOT LIKE A CENTRAL PLANK OF THE CAMPAIGN BY ANY STRETCH.

IF ANYTHING, YOU CAN USE IT AS EVIDENCE, SOMETHING TO POINT TO TO SAY I'M WILL BULWARK AGAINST ALL OF THESE EXTREMIST IDEAS, RIGHT?

LIKE DO WE WANT ARIZONA TO ENACT THE SAME LAWS THEY HAVE IN FLORIDA, IN TEXAS, IN ALABAMA, IN ARKANSAS, IN -- PICK A RED STATE.

AND ARIZONA VOTERS IN 2022 SAID THEY WANTED TO HAVE A DEMOCRAT IN THERE, AT THE SAME TIME THEY ELECTED A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.

VOTERS ARE ABLE TO HOLD THOSE TWO IDEAS IN THEIR HEAD, AND IT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR THE HOBBS ADMINISTRATION TO POINT TO VICTORIES.

LIKE DENNIS WAS SAYING, THERE ARE TANGIBLE ONES BUT THE MAIN THINGS SHE TALKED ABOUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, IN A LOT OF WAYS, IT MIGHT BE HER TRYING TO SAY, LOOK, WE STOPPED KARI LAKE FROM BECOMING GOVERNOR, NOW NEED TO STOP THE NEXT MAGA TRUMP, THE PERSON WHO ENACTS PROJECT 2025, AND MAGA-THEMED LAWS AND PUT THOSE ON THE BOOKS.

DOES ARIZONA REALLY WANT THAT?

THAT'S THE CASE SHE'S GOING TO MAKE TO VOTERS.

>> I'M NOT A POLLSTER BUT TALK TO A LOT OF THEM.

THE SHEER NUMBER OF VETOES DOESN'T TRACK ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WITH VOTERS.

NOT AT THE TOP OF THEIR MIND.

IT'S WHAT SHE'S VETOING.

THE BIG ISSUES, THE STUFF THAT GRABS PEOPLE, AND YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT ON THE GOVERNOR SIDE, TOO.

THERE'S A BILL THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE MORE STRICT AGE VERIFICATION ON PORNOGRAPHIC WEBSITES.

LOT OF DEMOCRATS DIDN'T LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE FIRST AMENDMENT CONCERNS.

WHEN I ASKED DEMOCRATS WHY THEY THINK SHE DID THAT?

HARD TO EXPLAIN TO YOUNG PARENTS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, A COALITION SHE NEEDS, WHY THERE SHOULDN'T BE MORE VERIFICATION ON THECITIS.

YOU SEE HER LOOKING AT THE ISSUE AND NOT THE SHEER NUMBER OF VETOES.

TED: READY MADE TV AD WHEN THE CAMPAIGN STARTS.

DENNIS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KARI LAKE AGAIN.

>> 2025, WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT KARI LAKE.

TED: SHE WAS TESTIFYING WHY SHE IS OVERSEEING VOICE OF AMERICA.

CONGRESSMAN GREG STANTON LAID INTO HER AND RESPONDED AS KARI LAKE RESPONDS.

>> THE RESPONSE WAS QUINTESSENTIAL, TYPICAL KARI LAKE, AND ONE OF THE POINTS THAT GREG STANTON WAS TRYING TO POINT HERE, SHE'S A TOP ADVISER TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR THE AGENCY THAT OVERSEES VOICE OF AMERICA.

AND SAYS YOU NEED SOMEBODY RUNNING THAT AGENCY WHO IS HONEST AND TRUSTWORTHY.

HE WAS MAKING A POINT HE BELIEVES SHE IS NOT, AND HE BROUGHT UP HER RECORD OF LAWSUITS AND CLAIMS THAT ELECTIONS WERE RIGGED.

SAID THAT IT'S BEEN ADJUDICATED IN COURT, I THINK THE PHRASE THAT STUCK WITH ME, WHEN HE CALLED HER AN ADJUDICATED LIAR, AND PRESSED HER EVEN TO PRESS HER TO ACKNOWLEDGE SHE LOST THE 2022 ELECTION, AND SHE WOULDN'T DO IT.

TED: YOU EMBARRASSED YOURSELF AND YOUR STATE, YOU LIED FOR YEARS, CALLED IT TOXIC POLITICS, AND SHE DIDN'T RESPOND TO ANY OF THAT, SHE MADE A CLAIM ABOUT STANTON THAT HAS NOT -- APPARENTLY ANOTHER FALSE CLAIM.

AND ABE HAMADEH -- WAS HE THERE?

HE'S NOT EVEN ON THE COMMITTEE.

>> I BELIEVE THEY GAVE HIM THE JUMP SEAT ON THE AIRPLANE.

THEY GAVE HIM AN EXTRA SEAT TO BE THERE.

NOT SURE WHY OTHER THAN HE'S A LAKE ALLY AND ALLY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

US IN THE MEDIA, WHEN WE ASK QUESTIONS, SHE REDIRECTED, SORTED CLAIMS ABOUT THE -- SORDID CLAIMS ABOUT THE PAST, WHAT HAVE YOU, I'D RATHER NOT REPEAT HERE.

SHE AGAIN DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT SHE LOST THE 2022 ELECTION, AND DECIDED TO ENGAGE IN THEATRICS.

>> AND BASICALLY SAID, I BELIEVE SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT STANTON'S QUESTIONS WERE INSANE OR CRAZY AND MADE A QUIP HOW SHE WISHED SHE COULD RETAIN THE PAST FIVE MINUTES OF HER LIFE BACK DURING THE HEARING.

THE KEY THING IS SHE DIDN'T ANSWER THE MORE POINTED QUESTIONS, SEVERAL POINTED QUESTIONS TO KARI LAKE.

SHE DID NOT ANSWER THEM AT ALL.

>> I THINK YOU COULD HAVE GONE A LONG WAY RESPONDING TO WHAT HE WAS SAYING.

I DON'T KNOW.

THAT WOULD BE ME.

IS THIS A SURPRISE?

WAS THIS A SURPRISE AT ALL?

IS THERE ANY SENSE THAT KARI LAKE HAS CHANGED IN ANY WAY?

>> NO?

NO.

NO.

NO, TO ALL OF THOSE.

SHE RESPONDED TO QUESTIONS THE PLAYBOOK WE'VE SEEN FOR THREE, FOUR YEARS.

NOT SURPRISING.

TED: WHAT ABOUT YOU, WAYNE?

>> I WAS NOT SURPRISED WHEN I SAW THE PRESS RELEASES AND TWEETS COME ACROSS MY DESK.

LIKE JIM SAID, I COVERED MANY PRESS CONFERENCES, OVER TWO CAMPAIGNS.

THAT'S THE WAY SHE RESPONDS TO ANY QUESTION SHE PERCEIVES IS CRITICAL OF HER FROM THE MEDIA.

IT BECOMES AN ATTACK ON WHO POSED THE QUESTION.

>> NO CHANGE THERE.

WE'VE ALL INTERVIEWED KARI LAKE, YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED KARI LAKE.

IF YOU ASK HER THAT POINTED QUESTION SHE DOESN'T WANT TO ANSWER, SHE'S GOING TO GO ON THE OFFENSIVE THERE.

NO BIG SURPRISE THERE.

AND WITH THOSE SITUATIONS, THERE'S THE AUDIENCE OF ONE.

SHE'S PLAYING TO ONE PERSON, THAT IS DONALD TRUMP.

TED: WE HAVE A BIGGER AUDIENCE THAN ONE, AND HOPE THEY ENJOYED THE CONVERSATION.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU GUYS HERE.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.