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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING WHY SENATOR RUBEN GALLEGO'S PLANNED VISIT TO IOWA LAST MONTH IS FUELING TALK OF A POSSIBLE PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US HOWIE FISCHER FROM CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR" AND JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX.

WE SHOULD NOTE JEREMY'S WIFE WORKS HERE AT ARIZONA PBS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HOWIE, START WITH YOU, USED TO BE IF YOU WENT TO IOWA FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN FAMILY REASONS, YOU WERE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

SENATOR GALLEGO IS GOING TO IOWA.

>> I'M NOT SURE IN HIS MIND -- LOOK, WE HAD MANY ARIZONANS THAT WENT TO IOWA AND YET TO HAVE AN ARIZONAN ELECT.

I THINK HE'S TRYING TO RAISE HIS PROFILE.

HE SEES SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD HAVING A PROGRESSIVE HISPANIC PERSON ON THE TICKET PERHAPS EVEN AS VICE PRESIDENT, WOULD BE HELPFUL.

SO YOU RAISE YOUR NATIONAL PROFILE.

DOES HE HAVE ILLUSIONS OF SUDDENLY I'M IN?

LOOK, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO BARACK OBAMA WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

IT'S TRYING TO RAISE HIS PROFILE.

TED: TRUMP BUDGET IN THE POLICY BILL, JIM, AND THE STATE FAIR IS A TRADITIONAL STOP FOR PEOPLE NOSING AROUND.

>> YEAH, IT IS, AND CERTAINLY THE CLOSER WE GET INTO 2028, YOU HIT THE 2027 STATE FAIR, THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION THAN 2025.

I THINK HOWIE IS RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO RAISE THE NATIONAL PROFILE.

ABOUT TRYING TO RALLY DEMOCRATS AND KIND OF A -- IN A MORE HIGH-PROFILE WAY THAN YOU CAN DO IN ARIZONA.

HE'S GOING TO IOWA, WHICH MEANS HE'S WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE "WASHINGTON POST," THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT THIS, WHO IS GOING TO IOWA?

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHO THIS PERSON IS AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, AND WHAT THEY SAY WHEN THERE.

AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE EARLY STEPS TO TRY TO BOOST YOUR NATIONAL PROFILE, AND LIKE HOWIE SAID NOT DO SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY, KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY IMMEDIATELY, BUT SET THE STAGE FOR SOMETHING LATER ON DOWN THE LINE.

TED: HE HAD A BIG PIECE EARLIER IN THE YEAR IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT AS FAR AS RAISING PROFILES.

HE'S YOUNG, LATINO, HE SPEAKS BLUNTLY, HE'S A VETERAN.

HE KIND OF HITS A LOT OF MARKS, BUT WHAT ARE THE DEMOCRATS LOOKING FOR IN A LEADER AND A NEW FACE OF THE PARTY?

>> LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO GET THEM OUT OF THE MESS THEY'RE IN NOW, AND I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR NEW FACES.

THAT'S WHY YOU SEE LOT OF ATTENTION ON SENATOR GALLEGO RIGHT NOW.

FOR YEARS, HE WAS IN A BLUE DISTRICT, PROGRESSIVE.

NOW THAT HE'S STATEWIDE, HE RAN ON A CENTRIST MODERATE MESSAGE, PUSHING THE MESSAGES TO CORRECT A LOT OF THINGS DEMOCRATS THINK COST THEM.

HOW THE TENT ISN'T BIG ENOUGH.

STOP WITH THE PURITY TEST.

LOSING TO TRUMP, I SAW A STUDY FROM PEW THAT SHOWED THAT TRUMP DID A LOT BETTER AMONG LATINOS LAST YEAR.

48%, MAYBE?

THERE WAS A LOT OF PLACES THE DEMOCRATS ARE LOSING GROUND, AND IF YOU HEAR WHAT PEOPLE FEEL, SENATOR GALLEGO IS TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES.

>> WHAT'S FASCINATING IS THE OTHER SENATOR FROM ARIZONA.

TED: YES.

>> MENTIONED AS A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

MILITARY, ASTRONAUT, MARRIED TO GABRIELLE GIFFORDS, FOLKS KNOW SHE WAS INVOLVED IN TERMS OF THE GUN REGULATION EFFORTS, AND SO I'M WONDERING WHAT FRICTION IS BEING CAUSED THERE AS MARK PROBABLY THINKS, WAIT, I WAS HERE FIRST.

WHO ARE YOU, YOU LITTLE YOUNG UPSTART.

>> I IMAGINE IF THERE IS FRICTION, IT WOULD INCREASE CLOSER TO THE DATES.

AS FAR AS A NEW MESSAGE, A FRESH MESSAGE.

SOMETHING DIFFERENT FOR DEMOCRATS.

GOODNESS GRACIOUS, THEY GOT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, DON'T THEY?

>> YES.

I THINK PIECE OF THIS PUZZLE IS A LARGER GENERATIONAL DIVIDE THAT WE'RE SEEING AMONG DEMOCRATS, WHERE A LOT OF THE LEADERS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAVE BEEN LEADERS FOR DECADES, AND THERE IS A GROWING MOVEMENT, ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUNGER VOTERS AND YOUNGER PROGRESSIVES TO TRY TO BASICALLY SHAKE OFF SOME OF THOSE FOLKS LIKE CHUCK SCHUMER WHO, WHILE THEY'VE HAD A STORIED CAREER, HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE FOR A LONG TIME.

PEOPLE POINT THEIR FINGERS AT IT AND SAY WAIT A SECOND, WE'RE IN THIS MESS, YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO GET US OUT OF IT.

WE NEED NEW BLOOD, NEW FRESH APPROACHES TO DOING THINGS, LET THE YOUNGER PEOPLE COME TO THE TABLE, WHETHER IT'S RUBEN GALLEGO OR AOC, OR ANY OF THE OTHER FOLKS, MAMDANI IN NEW YORK.

THERE'S AN APPETITE FOR THAT, AND IT IS AN OLD GUARD VERSUS NEW GUARD CONFLICT THAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE BUBBLE UP, AND WE'LL SEE IT A LOT MORE CLOSER TO THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

>> YEAH, WE'RE SEEING IN SOME OF THE FOLKS YOU MENTIONED SEEING IDEOLOGICAL DIVIDE, TOO.

THAT'S GOT SOMETHING THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE THEIR EYE ON.

FOLKS LIKE RUBEN GALLEGO, JOHN FETTERMAN, FOLKS VIEWED AS -- MARK KELLY, CENTRIST FOLKS OTHER THAN THE AOC, THE RESURGENT LEFT WIVENG THE PARTY THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF TRACTION.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE FRUSTRATED.

THEY SEE THE PARTY MAKING NO HEADWAY.

NO ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY RESIST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

OF COURSE, THEY'RE OUT OF POWER RIGHT NOW, BUT DEMOCRATS THINK OTHER DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING THE BASE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR WE'RE OUT OF POWER.

THEY WANT TO HEAR WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

YOU SEE A BIG DIVIDE NOT JUST POLICY BUT HOW TO CONDUCT THEMSELVES.

>> AND MIXED INTO ALL THIS ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL IS YOU HAVE OUR GOOD BUDDY MR. MUSK WITH AMERICAN PARTY.

TED: YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO MAKE DIFFERENCE?

>> I THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING ON A LOT OF BALLOTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S VERY CLEAR IS THERE ARE 50 DIFFERENT RULES FOR GETTING ON THE BALLOTS IN 50 DIFFERENT STATES.

HE'S GOT MORE MONEY THAN CESAR, SO HE IS DO THAT UP TO A POINT.

ON THE MARGINS, IF HE GETS ON THE BALLOT, IN A FEW KEY STATES, WHAT HAPPENS IN 2028?

WHO DOES HE TAKE THINGS FROM?

IT WILL BE DEEPER?

UNLIKE THE NO LABELS PARTY WHICH ONLY WANTED PEOPLE AS PRESIDENT.

HE'D LIKE TO REPLACE CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

THAT WILL HAVE A DIFFERENCE.

IT COULD HAVE A DIFFERENCE IN THE LEGISLATURE IF THEY WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN IT.

SO YET TO BE DECIDED, OF COURSE, GIVEN MR. MUSK WHO HAS THE ATTENTION SPAN OF A GNAT, WHO KNOWS?

TED: LET'S KEEP IT LOCAL AS FAR AS CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 1, JIM.

MARK ROBERT GORDON, VOTING RIGHTS ATTORNEY, THE LATEST, A DEMOCRAT, TO TAKE ON DAVID SCHWEIKERT.

THAT PHONE BOOTH IS GETTING AWFULLY CROWDED WITH DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

>> LAST YEAR, THERE WERE FIVE OR SIX CANDIDATES.

LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING SIMILAR THIS TIME, AND IT'S NOT THAT SURPRISING.

DAVID SCHWEIKERT HAS BEEN VULNERABLE FOR SEVERAL CYCLES NOW.

DEMOCRATS HAD THAT DISTRICT ON THEIR SHORT LIST FOR QUITE AWHILE, TRYING TO TAKE IT OUT, AND SO FAR, CONGRESSMAN SCHWEIKERT HAS BEEN ABLE TO WEATHER THE STORMS AND COME OUT OF THOSE ELECTIONS VICTORIOUS, SOMETIMES VERY NARROWLY, BUT NONETHELESS HELD ONTO THAT SEAT.

I THINK IT'S LIKE MOTHS TO A FLAME.

THERE'S A VULNERABLE INCUMBENT AND IF THE TIDES SHIFT AND CAN YOU BE THAT PERSON WHO'S RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN BE THE ONE TO KNOCK OFF THAT PERSON.

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE WAIT OCHLTH YEARS AGO, AS JIM MENTIONED, HE HAD ETHICS VIOLATIONS.

EVERYONE THOUGHT THIS IS IT.

HE'S GOING AWAY.

HE'S STILL THERE.

WHAT THEY'RE COUNTING ON IS MIDTERM ELECTION, REPUBLICANS IN POWER.

A LOT OF REPUBLICANS -- RANK-AND-FILE REPUBLICANS SAY WAIT.

WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT ARE THE CUTS THEY'RE DOING?

WHO'S GETTING THE TAX CUTS?

HOW DOES IT ALL FIT TOGETHER?

THEY'RE COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE DISENCHANTED WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND REALIZE WHO GOT THE TAX CUTS, WHO DIDN'T GET THE TAX CUTS, AND IS THAT ENOUGH TO KEEP PEOPLE HOME?

I DON'T KNOW.

TED: CD1 IS THE MOST FLUENT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN ARIZONA.

I IMAGINE A LOT OF THE FOLKS ENJOY THE EXTENSION OF THE TAX CUTS.

>> THERE'S A LOT IN THAT BILL FOR PEOPLE TO LOVE AND A LOT IN THE BILL FOR PEOPLE TO HATE.

THE DISTRICT IS SO CLOSELY SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE.

ON PAPER IT'S THE QUINTESSENTIAL SWING DISTRICT.

WHY DEMOCRATS REPEATEDLY ARE TARGETING SCHWEIKERT AND SO MANY DEMOCRATS GET INTO IT.

WE'VE SEEN DAVID SCHWEIKERT'S CAREER IN CONGRESS FOR A LONG TIME.

HE'S A SURVIVOR, CAMPAIGNED HARD.

HE'S TOUGH TO RUN AGAINST.

HE KNOWS THE DISTRICT, AND HE'S BEEN A TOUGH OUT FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

LAST YEAR, THEY FELT LIKE THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR YEAR.

THEY LOOKED AT THE YEAR BEFORE, VERY NARROWLY LOST IN A RACE THEY DIDN'T SPEND MONEY ON AND THINK, IF WE HAD STRONGER CANDIDATES, SPENT A LITTLE MORE MONEY, WE COULD HAVE HAD IT.

NOW EVERYONE WANTS TO BE THE CANDIDATE.

TED: INTERESTING, DOESN'T SEEM SCHWEIKERT GETS ENOUGH CREDIT FOR SURVIVING.

I THINK WE GOT McCARTNEY.

WE'VE GOT MARK ROBERT GORDON.

THREE NAMES THERE.

I'LL GET THEM IN.

WOODS, SHAW WHO RAN LAST TIME, THAT'S FOUR AND COUNTING.

DOES THIS MEAN WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MANY CANDIDATES, REFERRED TO THIS EARLIER, SOMEONE COULD POP UP OUT OF WEEDS, COULDN'T THEY?

>> YEAH, THEY CAN.

THIS IS SHAPING UP TO BE A RACE LIKE TWO YEARS AGO OR IN 2024, THE WINNER OF THE PRIMARY IS GOING TO COME OUT WITH 30 OR 33 OR 35% OF THE RACE BECAUSE HAVE YOU FOUR, FIVE, SIX PEOPLE IN THE CONTEST, SO YOU DON'T NEED -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO WIN BY A HUGE MARGIN, VERY UNLIKELY HAVE YOU SOMEONE RUN AWAY WITH THE DISTRICT, AND AMISH SHAH AND MARLENE WOODS RAN LAST TIME.

THEY'RE HOPING TO TAKE WHAT THEY LEARNED IN THE CAMPAIGN AND BRING IT INTO 2026.

TED: HOWIE, WHO IS DANA ALLMAN AND WHY DOES SHE KEEP GETTING WORK?

>> GOOD TO BE A FRIEND WITH THE GOVERNOR.

DANA ALLEMAN RAN FOR THE LEGISLATURE AS A DEMOCRAT, LOST.

SHE'S A RETIRED LIEUTENANT COLONEL, AND WHEN THE NEW GOVERNOR CAME IN, SHE SAID I NEED SOMEBODY TO RUN DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN SERVICES, SHOVED JUAN TO THE RIGHT AND INSTALLED DANA.

QUICKLY FIGURED OUT THAT DANA COULDN'T RUN THE DEPARTMENT, AND THE GOVERNOR, FIRST ON AN UNOFFICIAL BASIS, THEN EVENTUALLY REPLACED HER WITH HER DEPUTY, AND SO IT WAS DANA OUT THERE, WHAT DO I DO NOW?

THEY CREATED A JOB FOR HER AS DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC SECURITY TO HANDLE HELPING VETERANS FIND THEIR SERVICES, WHICH IS A JOB THAT DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE, SUPPOSEDLY A JOB AT THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN SERVICES.

I REPORTED ON THIS WHEN WE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE CONTRACT EARLY THIS YEAR AND THOUGHT OKAY, THEY KEPT PAYING HER THE SAME $770,000 SHE GOT AS DIRECTOR.

OKAY, THEY'RE GIVING HER A CHANCE TO TRANSITION OUT.

WE FIND OUT NOW THEY GAVE HER ANOTHER YEAR'S CONTRACT AT $770,000.

HAS $140,000 A YEAR ASSISTANT.

THIS COMES AT THE SAME TIME THEY LAID OFF EMPLOYEES AT THE DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC SECURITY, AND ALL I GET FROM THE GOVERNOR'S PRESS AIDE IS, YOU ARE CONFLATING TWO THINGS.

I'M SORRY, MONEY IS MONEY.

TED: JEREMY, THE OPTICS ARE NOTHING IF NOT FUZZY.

WHAT'S THIS ABOUT?

>> IF THERE ARE SEPARATE ISSUES, SEPARATE POOL OFS MONEY AS THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE TOLD HOWIE, THERE ARE THE OPTICS OF IT, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF AT THE TIME YOU CUT THE 450, 500 FOLKS BECAUSE THE FEDERAL FUNDING GOT TAKEN WAY, IN WASHINGTON, BUT JUST THAT YOU CREATED THIS POSITION THAT NO PREVIOUS GOVERNOR THOUGHT EXIST, GAVE TO AN ALLY WHO YOU TRY TO PUT ANOTHER DEPARTMENT HEAD BUT COULDN'T GET PAST JAKE HOFFMAN'S COMMITTEE, IT LOOKS BAD FOR MULTIPLE REASONS REGARDLESS WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM.

TED: AND ALLOWS SOMEONE LIKE SENATOR JAKE HOFFMAN TO SAY IT WREAKS OF CORRUPTION.

THAT'S A QUOTE FROM HIM.

>> PAINTS A PICTURE OF PATRONAGE.

THAT'S AN EASY NARRATIVE TO SELL AND ONE REPUBLICANS ARE EAGER TO POUNCE ON AND BEAT THE DRUM.

>> THE GOVERNOR IS TONE DEAF ON IT.

YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT AFTER I DID THE FIRST STORY ABOUT DANA, BIG FRONT PAGE PICTURE OF HER, JOB CUTS CREATED.

MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR DANA TO LAND ON HER FEET.

TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THIS, WHICH ALLOWS PEOPLE LIKE JAKE HOFFMAN TO COME IN, AND WHILE THE GOVERNOR SAYS JAKE'S OUT TO GET ME.

WELL, YOU KEEP GIVING HIM FUEL FOR THE FIRE.

TED: GIVING A LEDGE TO HANG ONTO THERE.

LET'S MOVE ONTO I THINK 12 NEWS HAS A STORY ABOUT UNSPENT ESA.

$450 MILLION OF UNSPENT ESA MONEY.

WAITING FOR COLLEGE.

IS THAT WHAT IT IS?

>> COULD BE.

ONE OF THE FUNCTIONS OF THE ESA SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM IS UNSPENT MONEY, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HOLD ONTO IT AND CARRY IT ON FOR FUTURE YEARS, AND YES, DEFERRING COLLEGE TUITION, COST AFTER THE STUDENT IS OUT OF THE K-12 SYSTEM IN ARIZONA.

TED: HOLDING ONTO MONEY IS ONE THING, THAT'S QUITE A BIT.

>> IT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

I DON'T KNOW IF ALL OF THAT IS NECESSARILY FROM THE PAST FISCAL YEAR OR ACCUMULATED AMOUNT GOING FORWARD.

THEY'RE SPENDING ABOUT A BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON THAT PROGRAM.

TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE.

THAT MEANS THAT FAMILIES ARE HOLDING ONTO AND HOARDING ROUGHLY HALF OF THE ANNUAL AMOUNT THAT IS GOING INTO.

>> THIS COMES DOWN TO THE OPTICS INSTEAD.

REMEMBER, EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNTS, VOUCHERS, STARTED IN 2011 FOR CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS, DISABILITIES AND SUCH.

AND THEY HAD A CREEP, NOW IT'S THE CHILDREN OF MILITARY VETERANS OR FOSTER CHILDREN OR CHILDREN GOING TO DNF SCHOOLS AND UNDER DOUG DUCEY, THEY SAID IT'S THE OPRAH WINFREY PROGRAM, YOU GET A VOUCHER AND YOU GET A VOUCHER REGARDLESS OF WHETHER PARENTS WERE SENDING THEIR KIDS TO THE SCHOOLS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN TRYING TO TRIM THIS FOR A WHILE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN POLITICALLY.

WHY IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE VOUCHER SYSTEM, IF YOU USE IT, LOSE IT, YOU GET TO SEND YOUR KID TO A, TO BROPHY, AND B, TO COLLEGE AT STATE EXPENSE.

TED: JEREMY, 12 NEWS STUDY AND THE REPORT, SOME FAMILIES ARE STOCKPILING MORE THAN $200,000 EACH AND NEARLY 200 ACCOUNTS HAVE MORE THAN 100,000.

IT DOESN'T SUGGEST THAT THIS MONEY IS NEEDED FOR K-12 OR WHATEVER PRIVATE SCHOOL YOU WANT TO TAKE THESE KIDS TO NOW?

>> SURE, COMES BACK TO THE ISSUE WE CONSTANTLY HEAR AT ESA, THE ISSUE OF NEED.

ARE WE GIVING IT TO FOLKS THAT NEED IT.

THERE IS NO INCOME CAP.

YOU HAVE RICH FOLKS GETTING TAXPAYER-FUNDED DISCOUNT TUITION TO BROPHY.

FOLKS ARE USING IT WHO COULDN'T AFFORD TO OTHERWISE, BUT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE NEEDS-BASED PROGRAM THERE, YOU DON'T KNOW.

I THINK A LOT OF THE MONEY IS FOR FOLKS WITH DISABILITIES.

440 MILLION, HALF FOR NONDISABLED STUDENTS.

SET THAT ASIDE.

THERE'S A BIG DIVISION IN HOW THE MONEY GETS USED BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS.

THE ORIGINAL RECIPIENTS ARE FOLKS WITH DISABILITIES.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE HAPPY TO LET THE PROGRAM CONTINUE, BUT 220 MILLION FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T NEED IT AT ALL AND HAVEN'T NEEDED IT ENOUGH TO USE IT.

THIS ALONG WITH GRAND PIANOS AND $500 LEGO SETS AND WHATEVER ELSE PEOPLE ARE SPENDING DOES, CREATE THE OPTICS ISSUE OF WHY ARE WE GIVING THIS MONEY AWAY IF PEOPLE USE IT FOR STUFF LIKE THIS.

TED: AT A TIME THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS FREEZING EDUCATION FUNDS, WE HAVE 118 MILLION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, LOOKING UNDER COUCHES FOR THAT CHANGE.

>> AND CREATING A NATIONAL VOUCHER PROGRAM, TOO.

THIS IS WORKING AS INTENDED?

THERE IS NOT OVERSIGHT ON IT BY DESIGN.

NOT METRICS, NOT MANY GUARD RAILS, WHO CAN GET THE MONEY OR WHAT THE MONEY IS SPENT ON.

BY DESIGN.

LETTING PEOPLE HOARD THE MONEY AND CARRY IT FOR COLLEGE TUITION IS DONE BY DESIGN.

THIS IS WORKING THE WAY THE REPUBLICANS WHO BUILT THE SYSTEM WANT IT TO WORK, WHICH IS TO ESSENTIALLY WORK AS A PARALLEL SCHOOL SYSTEM AND ESSENTIALLY ROB FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND GIVE BACK TO THE PEOPLE.

THIS IS A WAY TO DO THAT, AND TO ESSENTIALLY SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER THERE'S A SOCIETAL BENEFIT FOR EVERYONE HAVING WELL-EDUCATED STUDENTS, WHETHER YOU HAVE STUDENTS IN SCHOOL OR YOU DON'T.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE IF YOU HAVE, YOU GET IT, IF YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T GET IT.

TED: IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

>> HARKENS BACK TO THE COMMENTS TOM HORNE MADE, PUTTING FAIRLY MINOR GUARDRAILS ON WHAT EXPENSES COULD BE APPROVED.

HIS RATIONALE IS WE'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING AFTER THE PROGRAM, HE'S A BIG SUPPORTER OF ESAS, PEOPLE MAKING IT LOOK BAD, THAT'S GIVING THEM FEWER REASONS TO DO SO.

TED: HOWIE, SENATE PRESIDENT AND SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE WITH COURT FILINGS REGARDING ABORTION LAWS.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS NOT GOING TO DO IT SO THEY ARE.

DO THESE LAWS STILL APPLY NOW THAT VOTERS -- THE CONSTITUTION SAYS -- WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTION SAY AND HOW DOES IT APPLY?

PROP 139 WHICH PASSED 3-2 MARGIN THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT FOR WOMEN TO TERMINATE A PREGNANCY.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT RESTRICTIONS PREVIABILITY, UNLIMITED POST LIABILITY, THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS.

THE FIRST THING WE STRUCK IS THE 15-WEEK LAW.

EVERYONE CONCLUDED THAT WAS CLEARLY FORBIDDEN BY THE CONSTITUTION.

NOW THE QUESTION IS YOU HAVE LAWS ON THE BOOKS, 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD, YOU GOT TO MAKE TWO TRIPS THERE.

HAVE TO BE COUNSELLED WITH CERTAIN INFORMATION.

TELEMEDICINE BANS.

A BAN ON ABORTIONS BY DOCTORS IF THEY KNOW THE REASON A WOMAN IS SEEKING IT IS THE GENDER OR RACE OF THE CHILD, AND WHAT THE -- AS YOU POINT OUT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, SAID I'M NOT DEFENDING THIS LAW, I THINK IN FACT PROP 139 MAKES IT ILLEGAL, WHICH MAKES IT TO THE HOUSE SPEAKER AND THE SENATE PRESIDENT SAYING, THESE ARE ALL JUSTIFIED.

WHAT THEY'RE HANGING THEIR HAT O, PROP 139 SAYS YOU CAN DO IT IF THERE IS COMPELLING STATE INTEREST.

ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY, HE SAYS IT GIVES WOMEN A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT IT.

WHAT'S A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST OF A BAN ON ABORTIONS DUE TO RACE OR GENDER?

WELL, IT MEANS WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE STATE TO HAVE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

THIS IS A LITTLE TRICKY.

I THINK PERSONALLY PROP 139 IS BROAD FOR PREVIABILITY ABORTIONS.

BUT THIS GOES BACK TO HOW MANY YEARS HAVE THEY BEEN FIGHTING BEFORE ROE WAS OVERTURNED TO PUT IN RESTRICTIONS AND SEE WHAT THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH, AND NOW THEY WANT TO SEE WHAT TO KEEP ON THE BOOKS.

TED: THERE WERE QUESTIONS AFTER 139 PASSED, DOES THAT MEAN ALL THE MANDATORY THINGS GO AWAY?

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

>> NOT THAT THEY AUTOMATICALLY WENT AWAY.

IT'S THAT YOU HAVE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO SAYS, HEY, I THINK THAT THE WAY I READ THE CONSTITUTION IS, YOU KNOW, IT OBVIATES THESE LAWS AND MEANS THAT I'M NOT GOING TO ENFORCE THEM, THEY WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO DO SO.

THE COURTS NEED TO STRIKE THESE LAWS DOWN, AND THAT REQUIRES ABORTION ADVOCATES OR, YOU KNOW, PLAINTIFFS, PATIENTS, TO GO TO COURT AND FILE LAWSUITS AND SAY HEY, THIS SPECIFIC LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE OF WHAT VOTERS DID WITH PROP 139.

>> IT'S NOT JUST THE COMPELLING STATE INTEREST THAT HAS TO BE MET.

LEAST RESTRICTIVE WAY TO DO IT THAT'S POSSIBLE.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF ROADBLOCKS, AND THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DEFEND THESE LAWS.

THIS WAS WRITTEN TO BE AS EXPANSIVE AS POSSIBLE.

THEY DIDN'T PRECLUDE THE POSSIBILITY OF SOME RESTRICTIONS, SOME REGULATIONS BUT THE PEOPLE WHO HEARD THIS ARE ABORTION RIGHTS ADVOCATES AND WANTED TO HAVE EXPANSIVE ABORTION RIGHTS AS POSSIBLE, AND IT DID END UP IN THE COURTS.

PROP 139 DID NOT AUTOMATICALLY STRIKE DOWN ANYTHING.

IT DOESN'T REQUIRE YOU TO GO TO COURT.

THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD ON THIS AND WE SAW THIS IS WHERE THE BIG FIGHTS HAPPEN, ALL THE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE PILED UP OVER 30, 40 MORE YEARS.

>> ONE SMALL LEGAL POINT IN HERE, A CASE HAS TO BE RIGHT IN ORDER FOR THE COURTS TO TAKE IT.

FORMER JUSTICE GOULD, WHO IS FILING ON BEHALF OF THE SPEAKER AND THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING, PROP 139 HAS BEEN IN EFFECT FOR SIX, SEVEN MONTHS, NOBODY HAS BEEN DENIED AN ABORTION, SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

THESE LAWS BY THEMSELVES HAVE NOT CAUSED ANYONE TO BE DENIED AN ABORTION.

SO HE'S ARGUING TO THE COURT, WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT THESE INDIVIDUAL THINGS, THE 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD, ABORTION PILLS BY MAIL.

WHERE IS THE HARM HERE?

AND HE'S HOPING THE COURTS SAY BRING ME A QUOTE, UNQUOTE LIVE PERSON, LIVE CASE AND THEN WE'LL DECIDE THAT.

TED: THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD.

GENTLEMEN, I WANT TO END THE SHOW WITH A FRIEND OF OURS, CERTAINLY A WORKING PERSON THAT WE ALL WORKED WITH, AND WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH, A REGULAR ON "ARIZONA HORIZON" FOR OUR CARTOONIST SHOW, STEVEN BENSON DIED THIS WEEK AT THE AGE OF 71.

AS WE MENTIONED, AND THESE GUYS, JIM AND JEREMY ESPECIALLY, AND HOWIE YOU KNEW HIM FOR YEARS, YOU WORKED WITH HIM AT THE "ARIZONA MIRROR," AN AMAZINGLY TALENTED JOURNALIST AND CARTOONIST, POLITICAL CARTOONIST.

WON THE PULITZER PRIZE, NOMINATED A COUPLE OF OTHER TIMES AND APPEARED ON YEAR END CARTOONIST SHOW MANY, MANY TIMES OVER MANY, MANY YEARS, STEVEN BENSON.

LET'S LOOK AT PAST APPEARANCES.

>> SPEAKING OF CANDIDATES, LET'S GO TO THE GOP SIDE.

ALL RIGHT STEVE.

>> IN ARTICLE SIX OF THE CONSTITUTION SAYS NO RELIGIOUS TEST OR OATH FOR THOSE RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

APPARENTLY THESE GUYS ARE FALLING ALL OVER THEMSELVES, TRYING TO OUT-JESUS THEMSELVES.

TED: LET'S START WITH THE QUID PRO UH-OH.

>> WE GOT THE LIQUEFIED SPINE RESPONDERS IN THE GOP, WHO THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY FALL ON THEIR SWORDS FOR TRUMP, AND TRUMP DOESN'T MIND THIS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SURVIVE.

THEY GO ALONG WITH THE AUGUST QUID PRO QUO, I DON'T SPEAK LANT, AND IT WAS CLEARLY A PAYOFF AND THE HOUSE HAS ISSUED IT.

TED: WE ARE PRERECORDING THIS FOR LATER BROADCASTS.

>> THE SECRET'S OUT.

TED: LET'S GET IT STARTED, SHALL WE?

GET IT GOING WITH STATE NEWS AND BIG NEWS AS FAR AS THE GOVERNOR IS CONCERNED.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THESE LEFT US FOR GREENER PASTURES, GOING BACK TO WASHINGTON, D.C. MISS NAPOLITANO.

DON'T LEAVE US, JANET.

BREWER'S OFFICE CALLED, THEY CAN ONLY GET OUT OF THE GRUNT AND PAULA'S OFFICE FINISHED IT.

TED: STEVE FINISHED THE "ARIZONA MIRROR" WITH YOU AND WORKED WITH JEREMY AS WELL.

TALK TO US ABOUT WORKING WITH STEVEN BENSON?

>> IT WAS GREAT.

IT WAS A DREAM IN A LOT OF WAYS.

I GREW UP IN PHOENIX AND BORN AND RAISED HERE, AND LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE REMEMBER OPENING UP THE PAPER EVERY DAY AND LOOKING FOR HIS CARTOONS, AND I THINK JEREMY HAD THE SAME THING.

MY WIFE DID, WHERE YOU DID THE SEGMENT IN CLASS WHERE YOU LEARNED ABOUT POLITICAL CARTOONS AND DRAWING, YOU WOULD STUDY BENSON'S CARTOONS AND PRACTICE DRAWING THEM.

IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU FEEL TERRIBLE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DRAW A NICE CIRCLE.

WORKING WITH HIM WAS GREAT.

HE WAS INCREDIBLY KIND AND THOUGHTFUL AND WE'D HAVE REGULAR CONVERSATIONS, HE WOULD TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT HIS CARTOON WAS, AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND IT, AND SEVERAL HOURS LATER SEND ME A FINISHED VERSION OF IT.

OH, MY GOD, THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN I THOUGHT.

HE WAS ABLE TO EVOKE SO MANY STRONG FEELINGS AND OPINIONS AND EMOTIONS IN A FEW STROKES OF A PEN IN A WAY THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE TALENT.

TED: GENTLEMEN, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

MAYBE WE'LL GET A CHANCE TO HEAR FROM YOU LATER, YOU BOTH WORKED WITH HIM, STEVEN BENSON WAS A FORCE IN ARIZONA JOURNALISM THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.