.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE'S WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES AND THE FAKE ELECTORS CASE GOING BACK TO THE GRAND JURY.

JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON" .

TED: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US TONIGHT, CAMRYN SANCHEZ FROM KJZZ RADIO.

DENNIS WELCH FROM ARIZONA'S FAMILY, AND JEREMY DUDA FROM AXIOS PHOENIX, HIS WIFE WORKS FOR ARIZONA PBS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

CAMRYN, START WITH YOU.

THE FAKE ELECTORS CASE, WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT AGAIN, KIND OF AN INTERESTING TWIST.

>> ONLY BEEN FIVE YEARS, SOMETHING?

IT'S MOVING ALONG AT THE SPEED OF NORMAL COURT CASES.

NO, BUT REALLY IT GOT REMANDED, IT HAS TO GO BACK TO WHERE IT CAME FROM, FROM THE JUDGE WHO SAID THAT THE PROSECUTORS, MEANING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND HER PEOPLE, DIDN'T GIVE THE ACTUAL TEXT OF IMPORTANT FEDERAL LAW TO A GRAND JURY WHO SEEK THE ELECTORS WHEN THEY FIRST INDICTED THEM.

NOW THEY HAVE TO GO BACK AND DO IT PROPERLY.

TED: THIS IS THE ELECTORAL ACT OF 1887?

>> EVERYBODY HAS TO KNOW ABOUT THE ACT OF 1887.

THE IMPORTANT PART IS IT'S A REAL SETBACK FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES, IN THIS, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S PART OF THEM RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK, AS CAMRYN MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU'RE ALMOST AT THE FIVE YEAR MARK, AND IT BEHOOVES ANYBODY TO RUN THIS OUT AS LONG AS THEY CAN, BECAUSE IT'S STARTING TO GET DISTANCE BETWEEN WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 AND NOW.

I THINK IT'S PART OF A LEGAL STRATEGY NOW.

PEOPLE I'VE TALKED TO AT ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, CONFIDENT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO THE GRAND JURY AND GET MORE INDICTMENTS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT THE TIME THAT IT TAKES.

TED: FIRST OF ALL, WHAT IS THE LAW ALL ABOUT, AND WHY WASN'T IT MENTIONED THE FIRST GO-AROUND?

>> THE LAW IS ABOUT SETTLING DISPUTES OVER THINGS LIKE ALTERNATE SETS OF ELECTORS, GOING BACK TO MUCH DISPUTED ELECTION FROM 1876, RECONSTRUCTION ERA STATES, SENDING RIVAL STATE ELECTORS AND CONGRESS HAD TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF THAT ONE.

THIS LAW IS PUT IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN ANYMORE.

THE DEFENDANTS WERE USING THAT AS A KEY PART OF DEFENSE.

THE LAW CONTEMPLATES ELECTORS AND CONTEMPLATES IF THERE'S A DISPUTE, YOU HAVE TO GO BY THE ELECTORS CERTIFIED BY THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE.

TO THE POINT ABOUT THE TIMING, THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE SETBACK, AND TO ANSWER THE OTHER QUESTION, THEY MENTIONED THE LAW, BUT THEY NEED TO DO ACCORDING TO THE JUDGE IS GIVE THEM THE FULL TEXT OF THE LAW, SO IT WAS KIND OF A TECHNICALITY, BUT WHERE THIS HANGS THEM UP IS NOT JUST THE DISTANCE FROM THE ACTUAL INCIDENT THERE CHARGED OVER, WE HAVE AN ELECTION NEXT YEAR, KRIS MAYES IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION, IF SHE LOSES TO REPUBLICAN, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE A REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL CONTINUING WITH THIS CASE BECAUSE THIS IS SUPPOSED TO GO TO TRIAL IN JANUARY, I BELIEVE, PRESUMING IT DIDN'T GET PUSHED BACK AGAIN, WHICH I THINK A LOT OF US EXPECTED IT WOULD, BUT NOW, EVEN IF THEY GET MORE INDICTMENTS WHICH DOESN'T SEEM TOO DIFFICULT.

GOD KNOWS HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET TO TRIAL.

THIS WOULD REQUIRE KRIS MAYES TO GET ELECTED FOR THE CASE TO MOVE FORWARD AT THIS POINT.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT AND MARK BRNOVICH, WHO IS THE SUCCESSOR -- PREDECESSOR, THANK YOU.

DIDN'T BOTHER TO PROSECUTE THE CASE, WHICH IS WHY IT TOOK SO LONG TO GET STARTED, AS OPPOSED TO OTHER STATES THAT HAD ALTERNATE OR FAKE ELECTORS WHERE THE CASES WENT ON MUCH, MUCH SOONER.

>> I WANT TO ADD ON, THE REASON THIS IS A DEAL IS BECAUSE THE SO-CALLED FAKE ELECTORS THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE ARGUING AND DOING ALL THIS IN GOOD FAITH.

THE LAW DATES BACK TO THE 19th CENTURY, THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE OPERATING UNDER.

THEY THOUGHT, THEY WERE GOING TO SAY WE FEEL WE ARE OPERATING IN GOOD FAITH, AND THE FACT THAT FULL EXPLANATION WAS LEFT OUT IN THE GRAND JURY IS WHY THEY FEEL LIKE THIS SHOULD BE REMANDED BACK.

TED: RIGHT, RIGHT.

OKAY.

SO, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE VEHEMENTLY, IS THE WORD, DISAGREES.

THEY'RE GOING TO APPEAL.

THE TIMELINE FROM HERE ON OUT, YOU GOT THE APPEAL OVER HERE.

THIS COULD STRETCH OUT.

>> VERY MUCH COULD, THEY'LL APPEAL AND REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE.

IF IT HAPPENS QUICKLY, IF IT HAPPENS FAIRLY QUICKLY, NOTHING IN THE COURT SYSTEM MOVES FAST.

SO I WOULD IMAGINE THE JANUARY TRIAL WILL HAPPEN EARLY NEXT YEAR, THAT WILL BE PUSHED BACK NO MATTER WHAT, PRESUMING IT WOULD BE PUSHED BACK ALREADY.

THE DELAY IN TACTICS FEELS LIKE A PART OF WAITING OUT THE ELECTION AND SEEING WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

TED: CAMRYN, TALKING CONSPIRACY, FRAUDULENT SCHEMES, FORGERY, 11 INDICTMENTS HERE?

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S GOOD ENOUGH?

>> GOOD ENOUGH.

TED: OKAY, CAMRYN, STICKING WITH YOU, BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS, DO THEY EXIST?

>> I'M AFRAID THEY DON'T SEEM TO NOT AS OF YET.

THE HOUSE CAME IN FOR ONE DAY AND DECIDED TO GO BACK ON BREAK FOR TWO MORE WEEKS AND THE SENATE COMING BACK FOR TWO WEEKS AND DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY STICK AROUND FOR.

THEY'RE ON BREAK TO BUCKLE DOWN AND WORK ON THE BUDGET, I HOPE THAT'S THE CASE, BUT I MEAN, THE DEMOCRATS ARE CONDEMNING IT AND SAYING THIS IS BAD USE OF OUR TIME OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

HOBBS CALLED IT A WASTE OF TIME AS WELL, THAT MAKES ME CONCERNED THAT THINGS ARE NOT MOVING AS FAST AS THEY SHOULD BE.

TED: THE IDEA IS SEND EVERYONE HOME SO THEY DON'T GET IN THE LEADERSHIP'S WAY BECAUSE THE LEADERSHIP HAS REAL BUSINESS?

>> I KEEP ASKING MY BOSS IF I CAN TAKE AS MANY VACATIONS AS THE LAWMAKERS, AND KEEP GETTING REJECTED.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT FRAMEWORK, THERE'S A REASON TO HOLD BACK.

LAWMAKERS WANT TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHAT THE MAIN NUMBERS ARE, THOSE DON'T COME OUT UNTIL JUNE.

WE HAVE VOLATILITY IN THE ECONOMY RIGHT NOW, STEMMING FROM TRADE WAR, TARIFF WAR AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

THERE IS UNCERTAINTY THERE.

BUSINESSES ARE HOLDING OFF IN MAKING BIG INVESTMENTS AND BIG DECISIONS SO I AM THINKING GOVERNMENT MAY BE TAKING A WAIT-AND-SEE POSTURE.

TED: WE SAW IT TODAY WITH THREATS OF TARIFFS AGAINST THE E.U., EVERY DAY IT'S A NEW ADVENTURE?

>> AND SEEMS LIKE IT'S GETTING TO A POINT, CAMRYN AND JEREMY MAY BE MORE PLUGGED IN THAN I AM, GETTING TO A POINT WHERE YOU LOOK AT LET'S PASS BASELINE BUDGET AND MOVE ON BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW ALL THIS STUFF IS GOING TO AFFECT -- AND DON'T FORGET, THERE'S THAT BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL THAT PASSED IN WASHINGTON WITH MEDICAID CUTS, DEPENDING HOW BIG THAT HITS ARIZONA, THAT COULD AFFECT REVENUES COMING INTO ARIZONA IN A VERY BIG WAY.

TED: THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL RAN INTO A SKEPTICAL SENATE.

WE'LL SEE HOW FAR THAT GOES.

IS IT SKINNY BUDGET TALK, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADED?

>> SKINNY BUDGET, BASELINE BUDGET, THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE LEGISLATURE WHO ARE VERY WARY ABOUT ADDING MORE SPENDING.

WE SAW THE LAST REVENUE NUMBERS WERE BETTER THAN THE MONTH BEFORE, BUT I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS WANT TO SEE WHAT THE NEXT MONTHS ARE, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL AND THE MEDICAID CUTS.

200,000 ARIZONANS, I THINK, WHO COULD LOSE MEDICAID COVERAGE UNDER THAT, AND PLUS, ON TOP OF THAT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF AGREEMENT, NOT BETWEEN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND NOT EVEN BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

FROM WHAT I HEARD, SENATE REPUBLICANS VERY MUCH WANT TO DO WHAT WE SAW A COUPLE YEARS AGO, WHERE EVERY MEMBER GETS A PER MEMBER ALLOCATION, I THINK FIVE MILLION IS THE NUMBER I'M HEARING.

THE HOUSE IS VERY MUCH AGAINST THIS, AND SO I'M NOT SURE HOW FAR PART, THEY ARE IN TERMS OF ACTUAL SPENDING, BUT FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD, THAT SEEMS TO BE A STICKING POINT, AND THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR ARE -- I DON'T THINK THEY'RE TALKING MUCH EITHER, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE TELLS ME IN FORMAL TALKS HAPPENING BUT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ANYTHING SUBSTANTIVE, SO ALL THREE GROUPS AND ALL THREE SEEM TO BE SPINNING THEIR WHEELS AND NOT A LOT OF MOVEMENT HAPPENING.

TED: ARE THERE ISSUES?

THE IDEA OF EVERYONE GETS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SPEND.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WENT LAST TIME.

IT WENT, THERE WERE PEOPLE FOR AND AGAINST.

IT IS IT ISSUES OR JUST WE DON'T WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH?

>> I'VE HEARD BOTH AND UNFORTUNATELY HEARD THE SAME RUMORS.

THE THING ABOUT EVERYBODY GETS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CASH TO SPEND AT THE STORE, THAT HAPPENED AND SOME PEOPLE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT THEY WANTED AND SOME OF IT GOT CLAWED BACK, AND PEOPLE WERE LIKE, WAIT, YOU GAVE ME A CARROT TO VOTE ON THE BUDGET AND TOOK THE CARROT AWAY.

I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING MY CARROT.

IF YOU OFFER THE CARROT AGAIN, THEY MIGHT NOT BITE.

TED: I GET WITH YOU THE CARROT.

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

AGAIN, IT SOUNDS LIKE NO ONE IS THERE.

>> YEAH, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

GO ON VACATION, TAKE MORE TIME, COME BACK, HOPEFULLY SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE TO PROVIDE MORE CLARITY.

AGAIN, THERE IS THE UNCERTAINTY.

THE TARIFFS UP AND DOWN, ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND YEAH, SURE, THE BEAUTIFUL BILL WITH PROPOSED MEDICAID CUTS TO IT.

IT COULD BE A RESISTANT SENATE, BUT WE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE RESISTANCE IN THE HOUSE AND PASSED BY A NARROW MARGIN, THERE IS SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY, TIME TO WAIT AND SEE, THAT'S WHERE WE GO.

TED: YOU DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH TIME TO WAIT AND SEE, GET THIS DONE BY THE END OF JUNE, DON'T YOU?

>> YOU HAVE FOLKS OUT OF TOWN AROUND THE END OF JUNE.

THE CLOCK MIGHT GET MOVED UP A LITTLE BIT THERE.

WE'VE GOT UNDER A MONTH AND A HALF UNTIL THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, AND SINCE HOBBS HAS BEEN IN OFFICE, OUR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR AND REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE SEEM FOND OF PUSHING THINGS TO THE WIRE.

I THINK NOT OUT OF A DESIRE TO DO SO BECAUSE NO ONE CAN AGREE OR GET ALONG OR ANYTHING.

I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY WEEKS AWAY, AND I KNOW EVERY YEAR WHEN THESE THINGS DRAG ON, SEEMS LIKE IT'S STALEMATE, STALEMATE, AND THEN THERE'S A DEAL, HERE'S THE DETAILS AND THEY VOTE ON IT.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE AWAYS AWAY FROM AGREEMENT THAT EVERYONE CAN VOTE ON.

TED: CAMRYN, LOOKS LIKE NO AGREEMENT TO GET PROP 123 ON THE BALLOT FOR A VOTE THIS YEAR, CORRECT?

>> CORRECT.

HOBBS, WE WERE TALKING TO HER ABOUT A GAGGLE ABOUT THAT.

SHE SEEMS TO WANT TO DO IT, THERE IS NO EFFORTS TO GET PROP 123, AND TALK IN THE NEGOTIATIONS OF TYING IT TO VOUCHERS, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THE DEMOCRATS HAD A HUGE ISSUE WITH.

POTENTIALLY SOMETHING AS A JOINT MEASURE WHICH WOULD FACE LEGAL CHALLENGES IF THEY MOVED FORWARD WITH THAT, AND SINCE THEN, NOTHING.

THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE YEAR, WHICH IS DISTURBING BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAS DEADLINES AND WILL EXPIRE.

>> I WAS HEARING FROM SENATOR J.D.

MESNARD, LEADING THIS IN THE SENATE, WAS TELLING PEOPLE MAYBE THEY CAN GET SOMETHING DONE NEXT YEAR AND GET IT ON THE BALLOT.

>> THAT'S NICE FOR HIM, HE'S TERMED OUT.

TED: IF HE GETS IT ON THE BALLOT, IT'S GOING TO JOIN A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS.

IT'S GOING TO GET LOST.

DO PROPONENTS WANT TO SEE IT AS STAND ALONE OR ONE OF MANY?

>> DEPENDS WHO YOU TALK TO.

LAST YEAR WE HAD A TWO PIECES OF PAPER BALLOT IN MARICOPA COUNTY FOR UNWIELDING BALLOT MEASURES.

THE SHIP SAILED ON THAT AWHILE AGO IN TERMS OF THE LACK OF AGREEMENT OR MOVEMENT ON ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THERE IS, ON PAPER, TECHNICALLY A DEADLINE BECAUSE THE MONEY RUNS OUT AT THE END OF JUNE, BUT THE LEGISLATURE IS BACKFILLED, THE AGREEMENT IS IN PLACE.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT SOURCE OF MONEY SAYING WE CAN USE IT FOR SOMETHING ELSE NOW, AND THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME TIME LIMITS, THERE ISN'T THE SENSE OF URGENCY WHERE THEY COME BACK NEXT SESSION.

>> WHERE THE VOTERS ARE DEPENDS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE BILL.

THERE'S TALK ABOUT PUTTING THE ESA STUFF AND ENSHRINING THAT IN THE CONSTITUTION, NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ENSHRINING A PROGRAM IN THE CONSTITUTION.

YOU COULDN'T GO BACK AND LIMIT THAT PROGRAM AND LIMIT ITS GROWTH BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT PUTTING CAPS ON THE EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNT AND CAPS ON INCOME, IF YOU MAKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY OVER THE THRESHOLD, YOU NO LONGER QUALIFY.

YOU CAN'T ENSHRINE IT AS IT IS IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE A DIFFERENT TOPIC FROM PROP 123, THE SINGLE SUBJECT RULE WOULD APPLY, WOULD IT NOT?

>> SINGLE SUBJECT RULE SAYS YOU CAN'T PUT ONE ISSUE ON THE BALLOT THAT'S MORE THAN ONE ISSUE, AND IT'S SORT OF HELPFUL FOR THESE THINGS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH THE PROP 123 EXTENSION AND VOUCHERS, THAT MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH TO GET IT PASSED.

>> REMEMBER THE VOTERS SHOT DOWN ESAS AT THE BALLOT BOX, AND CAN YOU SEE A SITUATION QUICKLY, IF YOU GOT BOTH THE ISSUES ON THE BALLOT IN ONE BALLOT MEASURE, THAT THIS BECOMES A REFERENDUM ON ESA.

>> SURE, THAT SHOWS WHY YOU HAVE A SEPARATE AMENDMENT RULE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILLS WITH RANDOM STUFF IN IT HERE IN ARIZONA.

IF YOU PUT THE TWO THINGS ON THERE, IS THAT GOING TO SINK THE TEACHER PAY RAISES?

MOST -- ARIZONA IS A LOT OF SCHOOL CHOICE OPTIONS, IN GENERAL, A LOT OF THEM ARE POPULAR.

WE'VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT UNLIMITED ESA EXPANSION ON THE BALLOT.

THERE ARE FOLKS WHO WILL ARGUE THERE ARE ESA SUPPORTERS WHO ARGUED AGAINST IT BECAUSE OF THE CAP.

I THINK IT IS A NARROW SUB SET OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VAGUELY AWARE OF THAT.

WHAT YOU SAW WHAT YOU GET IS PEOPLE DID NOT WANT TO SEE THAT EXPANSION.

TED: CAMRYN, IS THIS YET ANOTHER THING KEEPING THE BUDGET FROM BEING BUDGETED?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S KEEPING THE BUDGET FROM BEING BUDGETED.

GOING INTO THIS YEAR, THERE WAS A LOT MORE HOPE FOR PROP 123 TO BE PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS, THAT FELL OFF FROM PROCRASTINATION AND THE TREND OF WAITING UNTIL THE LAST POSSIBLE MINUTE UNTIL WE HEARD SOMETHING.

>> WE DON'T NEED TO GET IT DONE, THERE IS ALWAYS NEXT YEAR, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, THERE IS NEXT YEAR.

TED: A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY FOR EDUCATION WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE WIRE.

ALL RIGHT, DENNIS.

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING STORY.

GIVE US A BEST ENCAPSULATION OF THIS.

IMMIGRANTS MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR COURT HEARING.

THEY GO TO THE APPOINTMENT.

GO WHEN THEY'RE TOLD WHERE, THEY'RE TOLD, THEY APPEAR, AND FEDERAL COURTS SAY WE'RE DISMISSING THE CASE, WHICH MEANS YOU ARE NOW STANDING THERE AS AN UNDOCUMENTED PERSON, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

>> THEN THEY ARE ROUNDED UP AND TAKEN AWAY.

THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING, AS YOU MENTIONED, THESE ARE MIGRANTS WHO CAME HERE, APPLIED FOR ASYLUM, ASKED FOR ASYLUM, WHICH WAS COMPLETELY LEGAL AND ALLOWABLE UNDER AMERICAN LAW.

THEY FOLLOWED THE PROCESS.

THEY'RE GOING TO THEIR COURT APPEARANCES, THEY SHOW UP THERE, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I.C.E.

AGENTS, WHO ARE MASKED UP, WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE AGENTS ARE, SHOWING UP AND TAKING THESE FOLKS AWAY.

THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT RIGHT NOW, AND YOU KNOW, WATCHING SOME OF THE IMAGES OUT THERE, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING WHERE YOU HAVE THE MASKED-UP FEDERAL AGENTS GOING AFTER PEOPLE.

TED: YEAH, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS JEREMY?

THIS IS AN INTERESTING STORY.

>> WE'VE SEEN THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, TAKE FOLKS WHO THEY WANT TO DEPORT, GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY, WHETHER YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY OR SOME CASES LEGALLY.

SOME CAME UNDER LEGAL PROGRAMS UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION OR ELSEWHERE, AND SAY HEY, HOW CAN WE EXPEDITE THIS, MOVE THIS FASTER.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

WE WANT TO DISMISS THIS CASE, AND IT RESETS THE SYSTEM WHERE CAN YOU JUST IMMEDIATELY GO TO THE EXPEDITED, REMOVE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PROVE THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR TWO YEARS, AND THEY ARE LEGALLY TAKING PART OF THE PROCESS, GOING THROUGH TO THE HEARINGS AND IT'S NOT THE CASE.

AND WE SAW THIS IN A NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES TOO, NOT JUST PHOENIX.

LOS ANGELES, NEW YORK, CHICAGO, DALLAS AND SEATTLE.

WE SAW THIS FOR TWO DAYS THIS WEEK, WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME TO SEE IT AGAIN OR SOMETHING SIMILAR, SOMETHING MORE, WHERE OBVIOUSLY WE SEE SO MUCH PUSHING OF THE ENVELOPE, PUSHING OF THE BOUNDARIES WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

>> THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO DO GOING FORWARD?

YOU, LET'S SAY, ARE A PERSON SEEKING ASYLUM LEGALLY.

YOU GO TO THE COURT HEARING.

IF THEY DECIDE YOUR CASE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH, YOU ARE BASICALLY GETTING TAKEN AND THROWN AWAY.

IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP TO COURT, YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MAKE YOUR APPEARANCE.

NOW YOU'RE IN TROUBLE IF AND WHEN THEY CATCH YOU FOR THAT.

ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO SHOW UP AND HOPE CAN YOU PLEAD YOUR CASE, OR ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO HIDE AT HOME AND HOPE THEY DON'T GET YOU FOR NOT SHOWING UP TO COURT.

TED: I THINK IMMIGRATION ATTORNEYS ARE TRYING TO GET CLIENTS TO SHOW UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

AS CAMRYN SAID, THAT'S NOT GOING TO CUT IT.

>> I WAS READING QUOTES FROM FAMILY MEMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TAKEN AWAY, AND THEY WERE THINKING, YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE DON'T SHOW UP, AND IT COULD HAVE A VERY CHILLING EFFECT ON THAT, AND I FIND THE TIMING OF ALL THIS PRETTY INTERESTING, BECAUSE IN TERMS OF BORDER IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AND WHAT NOT, IF YOU LOOK AT NUMBERS AT THE BORDER, DONALD TRUMP DRAMATICALLY REVERSED COURSE ON IMMIGRATION.

IT IS QUIET DOWN THERE.

SEEING THE LOWEST NUMBERS AND ENCOUNTERS WE'VE SEEN IN A VERY LONG TIME.

IF YOU GO BACK TO THE ELECTION, HIS MANDATE WAS HE WAS GOING TO GO AFTER THE WORST OF THE WORST, THE BAD CRIMINALS THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE BAD HOMBRES, THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS WHAT THEY WERE EXPECTING OUT OF THIS.

TED: INDISCRIMINATE PEOPLE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES WILL NOT MAKE US SAFER.

POLITICAL FALLOUT FROM ALL THIS?

>> FOLLOWED A LOT OF THE STATEMENTS FROM THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE OF THE AISLE.

I DON'T THINK WE SAW STATEMENTS FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, SAYING WE SUPPORT THIS, THIS IS A GOOD THING, WE'RE HAPPY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING THIS.

FOLKS SHOWING UP AND DON'T GET ON SAY GOOD-BYE, DON'T GET ON SAY STUFF, THROW THEM IN DETENTION.

NO WAY TO SETTLE AFFAIRS BEFORE THEY LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

SO I THINK -- I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT THE ACTUAL NUMBERS WERE, THERE'S POLLING THAT SHOWS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS HAPPY WITH IT BUT THEY'RE SEEING ON THE BORDER WITH THE ENFORCEMENT.

IN TERMS OF THE INTERNAL ENFORCEMENT, SOME OF THE HEAVY-HANDED DRACONIAN MOVES WE'RE SEEING ARE NOT AS POPULAR.

WE SAW THE FIRST TERM, FAMILY SEPARATION, THAT DOES NOT GO OVER PARTICULARLY WELL.

TED: HEARING ANYTHING, CAM RAIN?

>> FROM THE REPUBLICANS?

TED: YEAH, AND DEMOCRATS ARE ACTUALLY PROTESTING.

>> ACTIVELY PROTESTING, DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS SHOWED UP TO THE ASYLUM HEARINGS AND TALKING ABOUT IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, THAT THE JUDGE WILL TAKE THINGS IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION IF THEY SEE THEM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE.

THAT WAS THE CLAIM SENATOR ORTIZ, AND PEOPLE PROTESTING IN THE STREETS.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS HAVE A TREND OF SAYING IMMIGRANTS SHOULD DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, AND DEMOCRATS, BUT YOU SHOULD ENTER THIS COUNTRY THE RIGHT WAY, AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO INTERESTING ABOUT THIS, IT'S NOT RAIDS AND UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WHERE WE SEE IT AT DAIRY PLANTS AND FARMS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT PEOPLE GET ROUNDED UP, WHICH DEMOCRATS DON'T LOVE EITHER.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THE HEARINGS THEY'RE ASKED TO GO TO BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THAT IS THE LAW AND THEY'RE FOLLOWING IT AND GETTING THROWN IN TRUCKS.

TED: I.C.E.

COMMENTS, THEY'RE SAYING THESE ARE CRIMINAL ALIENS, THEY BROKE IMMIGRATION LAWS, WE'RE ARRESTING THEM, ADIOS.

>> THAT WOULD BE THE ARGUMENT BECAUSE WE HAMMERED HOME THIS POINT, THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS WHAT'S THAT'S GOING TO BE?

AGAIN, THEY'RE COMING OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, ASKING FOR ASYLUM, AND SURE, THAT LAW MAY HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND PEOPLE MAY NOT LIKE THAT LAW.

THEY CAN CHANGE THE LAW, BUT THEY'RE FOLLOWING THE PROCESS AS THEY KNOW AND, OF COURSE, THAT WOULD BE THEIR STATEMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SAY WE'RE ROUSTING UP PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING THAT ARGUMENT.

YOU ASKED ABOUT THE POLITICAL FALLOUT, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE DEBATE OVER IMMIGRATION, THERE IS ALWAYS THE DEBATE OVER IMMIGRATION, WHAT THAT DEBATE IS GOING TO BE BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE DOWN AT BORDER, SO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS TURNED INWARD IN DOING THIS.

WHAT'S THE ARGUMENT GOING TO BE?

TED: IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE NUMBERS DOWN, YOU GOT THIS SIDE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY THE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN, YOU HAVE THAT SIDE.

WE HAVE DEBATES ON THAT STARTING THIS WEEK.

CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 7 AS WE HAVE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

BEFORE WE GO ON THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE PHOENIX POLICE INVESTIGATION, CITY OF PHOENIX INVESTIGATION KAPUT.

>> YEAH, AND NOT PARTICULARLY SURPRISING.

EVERYONE SAW THE WRITING ON THE WALL AS SOON AS TRUMP WAS ELECTED, THE INVESTIGATIONS IN PHOENIX AND OTHER PLACES WHERE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAVE BEEN MORE SEVERE, THAT THESE WERE GOING TO GO AWAY, DROPPED.

THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

THE INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT BEGAN UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WENT ON FOR YEARS, DROPPED THE FINDINGS WHICH FOUND SUBSTANTIAL PATTERNS OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND VIOLATIONS, CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, RESCINDED, RETRACTED, THE REPORTS ARE OUT THERE.

WE'LL SEE LAWSUITS ON THAT, BUT IT MEANS THERE'S NO CHANCE OF A CONSENT DECREE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ALIKE WERE RESISTING, DID NOT HEAR FROM ALL THE COMMENTS INCLUDING THE MAYOR AND DEMOCRATS ON THE COUNCIL, DID NOT HEAR ANYONE SAY WE WISH THIS INVESTIGATION CONTINUED.

NOBODY WANTED -- EVENT FOLKS WHO ARE HOSTILE TOWARDS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN GENERAL ON THE COUNCIL IN THAT COMMUNITY, IS NOT REALLY HERE A LOT, I THINK THEY'VE COMMITTED TO REFORMS.

THE CITY HAS BEEN SAYING SINCE THE ELECTION, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE INVESTIGATION, WE'VE GOT REFORMS THEY'RE DEALING WITH, WE HAVE USE OF FORCE AND OTHER STUFF COMING OUT LATER THIS YEAR.

LOOKING FOR A NEW POLICE CHIEF WHO WILL BE HAPPY TO KNOW THEY WILL NOT HAVE TO OPERATE UNDER A CONSENT DECREE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

TED: MAYOR GALLEGO, DEMOCRAT, CAME OUT AND SAID, DIDN'T NECESSARILY SAY HAPPY DAY, BUT SAID REFORMS ARE THERE, AND I MEAN IT?

>> I THINK PART OF THE REASONS MIGHT BE THE COST WITH THE CONSENT DECREE AND THE MONITORING AND EVERYTHING COST THE CITY A LOT OF MONEY, TALKING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, THAT'S NOT HANGING OVER THEIR HEAD ANYMORE.

THE QUESTION OF HOW IS THE CITY GOING TO OPERATE GOING FORWARD, THEY HAVE COMMITTED TO THE REFORMS, AND DO THEY HAVE TO DO THAT OR GOING TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEY STARTED DOWN THE PATH OF REFORMING OR NO?

>> I SPOKE TO CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY EARLIER TODAY AND COUNCILWOMAN ANNA HERNANDEZ EARLIER TODAY.

THERE'S A BIG QUESTION ABOUT THE REFORMS, AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY I WAS SPEAKING WITH, THE QUESTION I HAD FOR HIM, HE TRUSTS THAT PHOENIX PD CAN REFORM ITSELF, THAT THE POLICE CAN POLICE ITSELF, AND THERE'S REAL DOUBT AT THIS POINT WHETHER IT CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT, THAT THEY FEEL THERE NEEDED TO BE SOME SORT OF OUTSIDE FORCE MAKING SURE THEY MADE THE CHANGES THAT NEEDED TO BE MADE.

WE'LL SEE IF THAT HAPPENS MOVING FORWARD.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THEY SAID THEY'RE GOING TO RESCIND THE FINDINGS ON THAT.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, THAT STUFF IS OUT IN THE PUBLIC.

CAN'T PUT THE TOOTHPASTE BACK IN THE TUBE.

TED: TRYING TO RETRACT THE ENTIRETY OF THE D.O.J.

UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

DO THEY WANT TO SEE A CONSENT DECREE OR SEEMS LIKE MOST FOLKS WANT TO MOVE ON?

>> THE CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY I WAS SPEAKING TO, YES.

I FEEL LIKE THEY FELT A CONSENT DECREE, A FEDERAL OVERSIGHT WAS NECESSARY BECAUSE THE FEELING IS YOU DON'T BECOME -- THERE WAS A BAD POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH THESE KINDS OF FINDINGS OVERNIGHT, THAT YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF STUFF TO WORK AT, AND TO REFORM, IF YOU WANT TO GET THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT BACK TO WHERE PEOPLE THINK IT SHOULD BE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS ALSO I THINK IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION IS THAT THIS D.O.J.

INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN DROPPED.

WHAT IS THIS GOING TO DO WITH TRUST BETWEEN THE PHOENIX PD AND THE PUBLIC THAT THEY'RE SWORN TO PROTECT AND SERVE?

TED: ALL RIGHT, PANEL, THAT'S IT.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.